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War on terror not in Pakistan’s favour: Nawaz Sharif
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War on terror not in Pakistan’s favour: Nawaz Sharif
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Fawad-DigitalOutreachTea
Pak Newbie


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Washington DC

Fawad - Digital Outreach Team - US State Department Reply with quote
Riya wrote:
Fawad is totall supporting USA !!!!


i don't think that he is a pakistani !!!



شايد اعداد وشمار کی روشنی ميں مثبت بحث کرنے کے مقابلے ميں جذباتی تنقيد کرنا آسان کام ہے۔

کجھ باتوں کی وضاحت کرتا چلوں۔

ميں نے اس حقيقت سے انکار نہيں کيا کہ ميں يو – ايس – اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمنٹ کے ليے کام کرتا ہوں بلکہ ميں نے اپنی پوسٹ کے آغاز ميں اپنی وابستگی واضح کی ہے۔ آپ نے يہ نتيجہ کيسے اخذ کر ليا کہ ميں پاکستانی نہيں ہوں۔ کيا کسی بھی موضوع کے حوالے سے اپنی راۓ قائم کرنا آپکی قومی وابستگی سے مشروط ہونا چاہيے؟

ميں نے صرف اس راۓ کا اظہار کيا ہے کہ دہشت گردی اور طالبان کے حوالے سے پاکستان کا ايک اہم کردار رہا ہے۔ يہ راۓ ان عوامی جذبات سے ہٹ کر ہے جنھيں پاکستانی ميڈيا پر کچھ عناصر نے بڑھا چڑھا کر پيش کيا جاتا ہے، جس کے مطابق "دہشت گردی پاکستان کا مسلہ نہيں ہے اور ہم محض امريکہ کی جنگ لڑ رہے ہيں"۔ ميری اس راۓ کی بنياد جذباتی نعرے نہيں بلکہ وہ تاريخی حقائق ہيں جو ميں اس فورم پر دستاويزی ثبوت کے ساتھ پيش کر چکا ہوں۔


فواد – ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
digitaloutreach@state.gov
http://usinfo.state.gov

Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:30 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

My two cents Reply with quote
I just found this page at random because of the Hello Kitty image. I'm here in the USA and I wanted to say a couple of things.

1. The war on terror is a lie. I agree, it is war on Islam.
2. A lot of people in america feel this way, even some christians.
3. It is tricky though, when we travel, to deal with being "american"

Here's the problem:

4. We have no power over this. We have no real democracy here. We have a computer that will tell us that we have chosen Obama or Clinton or McCain, and it is a limited selection, and all seem to want war, and maybe that computer is lying to us. But we are told this is "democracy."

5. We have no influence. "Terrorism" scares prevent us from contacting our govt. except through email. The email is all deleted, so there is no contact. This govt. will vote for what the power groups tell it too, even if those powers are in Israel or China.

6. Polls show 80% of democrats oppose this war, and 75% of republicans also oppose.

7. Our media, television, etc. are all owned by a very small number of people, who have very close ties to the same small power elite. We have no say in this either. Only on the internet.

So. I wanted to come on to first say "americans" are not the enemy, but our govt. is out of contol. Many of us want to help and not be at war. I want to find a way to avoid war with pakistan, and afghanistan, iraq, syria, somalia, etc.
Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:05 pm View user's profile Send private message
cable-guy
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: UK

Any discussions at this level is useless Reply with quote
Dear Readers,

I'm not here to disappoint you but on your level it's almost useless to discuss such high profile global or national issues. However, it may slightly broaden up your horizon but it's better to focus your mind on personal development as to attain a level where you can influence these factors affecting regional and international political situation.

Thanks for reading,
Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:24 pm View user's profile Send private message
ghufran_454
Pak Newbie


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 4

War on terror Reply with quote
Its nothing..........Our army is killing our own people.............
If there are some terrorists , so they should be welcomed for dialogues
Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:34 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Reply with quote
cable-guy: Whatever. There is no way to access the decision making channels of power of the west, even from within this machine. The solution is there in Pakistan. The bear will eat whatever looks edible.

ghufran_454: Yes, clearly this is true. The problem is how to get from here to there.

Mostly I think the war on terror is an excuse for every country to attack people that it does not like. But there should be a discussion for all such issues with any group. It is the same situation in Darfur, that there is not a proper discussion going on.
Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:46 pm View user's profile Send private message
hello1234
Pak Newbie


Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 23

Reply with quote
yes i no
Thu May 01, 2008 1:31 am View user's profile Send private message
priyanka08
Pak Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 27
Location: india

This is not 'War on Terror' Reply with quote
Its a bad time to be USA's friend. Pity Pakistan is one of them.
The USA ruined your democracy. Do you guys realise that?

US is desperate for power. But sorry, you're no longer a Super Power who can dictate terms to everyone.

_________________
i am what i am.
Fri May 02, 2008 12:53 pm View user's profile Send private message
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Reply with quote
priyanka08

I am not a superpower. I am not dictating anything to anyone. The US govt is a dictatorship. We have "elections" determined by computers, and reported by the media, all owned by the same people who own the govt. I have no say. Americans can no longer contact their government officials. This means that Americans, the USA as you put it, have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the "USA" military does. This is what is so offensive.

Most americans realize this, but what can we do?

This is why I post on this forum. If the people of pakistan work together with the people in america, we can stop this. If you refuse to help us stop our govt, we cannot do it on our own.

Can Pakistan defeat US Army in a war? Sure. Do you really want to have that war? Everything will be bombed, and millions of people will be killed.

The idea that "America" is a single entity that has one mind and acts like a robot is silly.

Americans, over 3/4ths of us, do not want this war. Our govt. wants this war because Israel wants this war.

If Americans revolt against this, our govt. will shoot us. Instead we can "protest" in "designated areas" and then it will not be covered by the media.
Maybe this will make us feel better about it, but it will do nothing to stop the war.

My point is Americans would like to not have this war. But we can not stop it without help from Pakistanis. If you do not want this war, than please, we should talk about things that maybe can be done.

The US govt. is just on its own, we have no control. They are printing money, and soon they will be drafting soldiers, and building more bombs and we will have no say in this. Then they will go and kill muslims, in pakistan, iran, syria, somalia, iraq, afghanistan, whereever.

It is not because we the american people told it to do this. It is Israel, and these power "globalists". The only americans who believe that this is the right thing to do are a small <25% minority who watch too much TV, which keeps telling them that they are supposed to support more war because it will bring freedom or democracy or will stop terrorism, or some stupid argument.

I think you have more power in pakistan to influence your govt. and what it does than we have in the US. I think we have none at all. So, American govt. will attack, even if pakistan has the support of the muslim world, even if it has the support of china, the US govt. will still attack. This is because war makes them rich. Even if The US govt. loses the war, they still make lots of money. They do not care if they lose. They make money. Millions of people die.

It will not be good for Pakistan to fight this war and win, because some nuclear bombs will be sent maybe by both sides, lots of civilians will be killed.

I am not saying I have a solution, but that's why to start talking about one is good.

I can tell you what will not work

1. To get america to change. America has already changed, in the minds of the people, but the US Government is not about to change, even with Barack Obama as president, it is unlikely that the US govt. will change.
2. If Pakistan does not try to get any support from the west to stop this war, then the war will happen, and that will be very bad. Even if you win.

Take a look at where the US has fought wars in the past. Everywhere there are land mines, everywhere has been bombed, millions of people have been killed. Take a look at Iraq. Will Iraq defeat the US? Of course they will. But that is very little consolation to the people in Fallujah. And meanwhile, the people who put together this war, they do not care that they lose. They made trillions of dollars off of having this war.

Capice?
Fri May 02, 2008 5:25 pm View user's profile Send private message
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Reply with quote
Or to put more simply.

Russians people are told they voted for Putin's "united russia" party. most of them say they didn't, but does it matter? do you the russian people have any control over what the Russian govt. does? No of course not. Vladimir Putin tells the Russian govt. what to do. It is the same thing here in America. People like Richard Perle tell the US Govt. what to do.

Americans here are wasting their time writing letters which are never read because "Homeland Security" has blocked them, but would probably be ignored if read. We have huge protests that are never covered because the media is so pro-israel and pro-war, it does not want to hear this.

To avoid this war, Pakistan needs to know what america is thinking all of the time, and how is it going to do that if it's people do not talk to americans?
We need to coordinate, because it does not benefit either of us to have this war. I feel in pakistan, I have a chance to talk, because there are many people who speak english, but it is a broader problem, Iran, Syria, Somalia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, also have to worry. American people are not "desperate for power" we are almost a third world country now. American government and bankers and people who are behind this want power but more it seems, they want money.

Winning or losing a war is not good. Only not fighting it is good. Look at WWII, Germany and Japan fought the US and Russia, we are all still here, but we all had many casualties, and much debt. I saw recently that the US has still not paid its debt from WWII. Compare with Sweden and Switzerland, who did not fight this war. Things are much better for them. No death, no debt. No war is better than war, no?
Fri May 02, 2008 5:43 pm View user's profile Send private message
priyanka08
Pak Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 27
Location: india

Surprise Reply with quote
American Troll

Its surprising to read ur reply.

First, Im not a Pakistani but an Indian.

Then, I've great respect for ur democratic system where i assume people have a say in their government. Its a shame if ur democracy, which is centuries old, not matured enough to respect the people's voice.

I dont think Barak Obama will continue the stubitity of so called 'War on Terror'. He could be a model president if he is voted to power.

Pakistan should do what it can do to control terrorism.

_________________
i am what i am.
Sat May 03, 2008 12:57 pm View user's profile Send private message
priyanka08
Pak Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 27
Location: india

Reply with quote
Quote:
we are almost a third world country now.


No, You're not. You cant understand third world by just seeing the CNN special reports.
To stop this war, its you guys have the power. Vote reasonably.

Pakistan should control terrorism in all forms.

Quote:
No war is better than war


Everyone has only one answer for this.

_________________
i am what i am.
Sat May 03, 2008 1:10 pm View user's profile Send private message
asim74
Pak Newbie


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 2

Reply with quote
no
Sat May 03, 2008 5:19 pm View user's profile Send private message
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Reply with quote
priyanka08,

I hope you are right about Barack Obama. I think this is one time that all of america is united behind one man, with hope that he will or can change it.
But we have computer voting, and the vote is turning out however the computer says. We cannot control this. In spite of what CNN says.

CNN is all lies, we think it is worse than FOX. I would never believe what it says on CNN

I've been to the third world, have you been to America? Inner cities? Rural countryside? It is maybe worse here than in much of the third world. I think things are maybe better in India now than in most places, but I don't think of India as third world. In some parts of Africa things are worse, but in some parts they are better. I have a friend who works for the UN and is from England and I asked him if my assessment that america is becoming third world was true, and he said "no, the third world is not as bad off as america." So don't believe everything you see on CNN. We are not all Paris Hilton. Most people here are living in plastic trailers that are barely stuck together and they are still in debt.

Obviously, it is worse when there is a war somewhere. But people here are often very very poor and malnourished, and there is so much debt. No one can afford anything, everything is paid for with debt, which they then have to work off. The healthcare system here is 10% worse than India according to the UN in % chance of survival if you are seriously ill. We have a small population of rich people, and we have a small very high tech industry, but then this is true in your country as well, no?

So it's not that different. I don't know how it is there now, but here, in some places it is like it was in Calcutta I would think maybe 10-20 years ago. In New Orleans it was like that before Katrina hit. Here where I live, it is this bad. I am lucky because we own a house and a car, and so are not in debt. But america is not so rich everywhere.

Also, we do not have such control over out govt. I think you have something backwards though. It is not that it has "not matured" it is rather that it has "decayed." It worked at some point, but now it no longer works. It is becoming a big corrupt beaurocracy that runs for its friends and itself, much like the old soviet union. And this is increasing with every year.

But now it is hard for us to have a voice. The "terrorism scare" has made it so we cannot contact govt. we used to have this power. We have now surveys online are showing again and again that whites, blacks, christians, even republicans are in favor Barack Obama. But if you turn on to CNN they will tell you that Americans want Hillary Clinton. I see online in polls that about 7% of people want Hillary Clinton. 50% of Americans or so are online, so this has to be some indication. CNN is lying I think. This computer voting is new, and everyone is suspicious, because maybe it will tell the truth, but it is very easy to rig. As a computer programmer, I am sure this is true. If Hillary wins, no one will believe, there will be maybe riots. But the media will try to make it happen because Hillary has promised these media companies a "reform bill" which will give them control over the american portion of the internet. So they support her. Some corporations ESS and Diebold control these computer voting machines. The way they are put together, it is very easy to rig. We no longer have independent exit polls to us to challenge the results. We used to have that back in 2000, but not anymore.

Added to this, the american economy is in trouble, not because we are losing jobs to india or china, but because our govt. is spending money and borrowing money and printing money and soon our dollar may be like the Russian Rouble. Or the ZMD.

The war on terror was always a sham, it's a cover for american imperialism. I saw Bush, our idiot in chief insulted India today, and Laura, his wife, insulted Burma. I apologize for these stupid people, but the story here is very complicated. There is so much corruption and so many power people you don't see, the people who tell Bush what to do, that it will be hard for one man to fix. If a man is going to try, it is Barack Obama, sure, we all agree, but I think that there are people trying to cheat the system to give us another Clinton, and this nonsense will continue. Also, even if we get Obama, it will take some support from the other side to make peace, because the people we call "shadow govt." and various other things, these "neocons" and "globalists" things like "CFR" etc. these guys have a lot of power, and they will try to get us into more wars. It's power and profit for them. It does not help america. American people do not want an empire. We have no use for one. We want only America back. I think if it doesn't stop this might end in revolution, but the people in power have so much power, that unless the military itself overthrows the govt., I can't see it happening.

Anyway. I'm really here to get some dialogue started with people there so we can talk about this problem. I do not control america, the american people do not control america. A small group, sometimes we call Bush/Clinton a Dynasty, but even they don't control America. It's this cabal of power groups that make the decisions. People who oppose them just disappear, like in Putin's Russia. It's not a good situation. It's not completely hopeless, but I do not think that if the American people try to get control of the American govt. and Pakistan and other countries keep to themselves and do not talk with the American people and the American people do not talk to people in other countries, that this will be solved. No, it will not be solved. The US Govt. is likely to attack in the Middle East, Central Asia and in Africa.

There is a solution though. These people in power are not the only ones with brains, and they can be out-thought. I think Iran has been playing a dangerous but successful game, Saddam Hussein did not do so well. But there is no guarantee. Right now, the target seems to be Syria, but it keeps changing. The real danger is if America re-instates the draft, there will be a much bigger army, and the US will fight a bigger war. But everyone agrees now that this is not the American people who want this war. American people overall are very fond of other nations. You know this if you've been here, everywhere there are Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, etc. and restaurants everywhere, and we always eat there by choice, everyone does. We try to learn about other people, other cultures. My own spiritual mentor is a Swami from India, even though I am a Taoist. But I talk with the christians and jews and we understand one another, and we all seem to not want this war. I cannot say I have met one american, not even those who like the idiot Bush, who support the so called "war on terror." It's a cover to attack people with other wars. We know this. But if you watch our media, or listen to our politicians, you don't get this. You can tell this online. There is a small hawkish minority, but I find when I go meet people, I cannot find these people who want war, or people who don't like muslims, etc.

Anyway, let's move passed this bickering over the people. We all know it is not the people of America, or Britain or Israel even that want this war, It's Bush., Blair maybe Brown? and Ohlmert who want war, and the people who are advising them. Nothing we do can change there minds. So when in november, we will all push the button on the computer for Barack Obama, that does not mean that the computer will record this vote. Someone can change it, and we will never know. But even Obama faces an uphill battle because the people in true power can remove him, they might even try to kill him, if he is in their way. It's best to make the war look like a bad idea. It's a mind game, like chess, and we all need to think it through.

I'm pretty much convinced that if we just go our own ways, do our own thing and don't talk, then we will accomplish nothing, and there will be a war.

You know that it is not the terrorism I'm concerned with, it's the war.
When the US has gone to war in the last 10 years, it drops land mines everywhere.
No one should want that.

It is difficult to have to fight through so much to get to the position where we can talk, but it's like if you consider that if there was a killer on the loose, and I try to tell you, and you say "oh, I handle it" or "you stop him for me" well, here is where we are, and the killer is likely to remain in control of the US govt. and so he needs to be outsmarted. We can't just sit back and "hope for the best" and expect a better result than if we think together and "plan for the worst" because this killer is not Osama Bin Laden, it's a group of people who are advising my govt., a govt. over which I have no control. I think I am putting myself at risk just posting to this forum. I would like you to try to respect that, and entertain the possibility that right or wrong, there is a chance that I may have a point.

Then maybe we can talk.
Tue May 06, 2008 9:17 am View user's profile Send private message
faisal2879
Pak Newbie


Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 7

never ending war Reply with quote
this is something which is never ending. we can only pray
Tue May 06, 2008 5:43 pm View user's profile Send private message
ugwaraich
Mr. Pakistan
Mr. Pakistan


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1481

Re: Surprise Reply with quote
priyanka08 wrote:
American Troll

Its surprising to read ur reply.

First, Im not a Pakistani but an Indian.

Then, I've great respect for ur democratic system where i assume people have a say in their government. Its a shame if ur democracy, which is centuries old, not matured enough to respect the people's voice.

I dont think Barak Obama will continue the stubitity of so called 'War on Terror'. He could be a model president if he is voted to power.

Pakistan should do what it can do to control terrorism.


sorry for jumping into your conversation like an unethical beast.
But a few points about your post:

if you think it is "So called 'war on terror"', then what do you mean by "Pakistan should do what it can do to control terrorism", I mean "so called" sounds to me as if we are shadowing this war as a FAKE war and if this war is fake then why Pakistan should control the terrorism on the costs of our own army and resources being killed and drained?
Thu May 08, 2008 3:15 am View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ugwaraich
Mr. Pakistan
Mr. Pakistan


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1481

Reply with quote
priyanka08 wrote:
Quote:
we are almost a third world country now.


No, You're not. You cant understand third world by just seeing the CNN special reports.
To stop this war, its you guys have the power. Vote reasonably.

Pakistan should control terrorism in all forms.

Quote:
No war is better than war


Everyone has only one answer for this.


just to let you know that america is actually heading towards a third world country. The reason being the crash of their economy etc. Estate business and value for property has actually gone too low that people are abandoning their homes in some areas just to keep away from paying the mortgages. I agree CNN normally broadcasts fake reports but not always especially about USA's internal affairs.
Thu May 08, 2008 3:18 am View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ugwaraich
Mr. Pakistan
Mr. Pakistan


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1481

American Toll Reply with quote
I think you have got some genuine points. Just to make one more point that USA's economy cannot bear another war in near future not atleast in 4-5 years from now, I dont think USA has got ability to attack any country at the moment because a country's economy is of huge support to the weapons and war, when we all see american economy sinking like titanic, I dont think this half dead titanic have got anymore throttle power to pursue anymore war, I presume that everyone in america realises this point and that is one of the reasons why america has not been very bold over Iran.
Thu May 08, 2008 4:12 am View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ssmeezan
Junior PK Member
Junior PK Member


Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 57

future of pakistan! Reply with quote
Salam for all,

War on terror should not be based on dictation of any world power ...... present world power or in future ..... whether its america or any other ..

KH
sami
Thu May 08, 2008 11:46 am View user's profile Send private message
kalo
Pak Newbie


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 6

Reply with quote
yeh quite a warm dabate goin on in this forum
Thu May 08, 2008 4:45 pm View user's profile Send private message
American Troll
Pak Newbie


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Reply with quote
ugwaraich,

A few points.

1. when priyanka08 opposed the legitimacy of the "war on terror" and then opposed terrorism, that was a legitimate position. In the USA we have a "war on drugs" in which some people are killed, many people go to prison, and as a result, the price of drugs goes up, this makes drugs more profitable to deal in the underground markets, and so then more people do it. So I oppose this drug trafficking, but I also oppose this "war on drugs" because I think it is making the problem worse.

2. America is heading towards a third world economy very rapidly yes. Today I went to three businesses I frequently use, and all three had gone bankrupt. One of the three actually went bankrupt while I was in the office. I think it is maybe a couple of years before being able to afford food will be a serious issue. We have already started adjusting our diets to try to figure out how to make our jobs pay for food. Even more serious is that it gets very cold in some parts of the US, and next year, I think it will not be possible for us to afford heat. We will need some sort of solution. Sometimes it is -20C here or less, even -60C. So this is a problem.

3. If you look at history, this is just the sort of situation in which countries *do* attack. When Germany attacked, it's economy was in ruins. When the US went to war against Japan in 1937, our economy was in ruins. The same is true in our war with Vietnam. It's not always the case, but even in the first war in the gulf in Kuwait, the US economy was very bad. This war does several things: it distracts people from the situation at home, and it puts people to work on the war machine. But the main thing that makes this possible is a draft. I think it's very possible that the US will deal with its economic crisis by putting the draft back into action, and this will give them an army of conscripts. They will pay these non-volunteer soldiers with money that they just print. It won't have to come from anywhere real, they will just print it, and devalue the dollar, like they are already doing in Iraq. Every time money is spent in this Iraq war, it is just new printed money, it is not tax money, and the dollar drops in value, because we are printing new money. I think soon we could become like Zimbabwe is now with the ZBD, like Yeltsin with the Rouble, or like the Weimar republic in Germany before WWII. But it is not going to stop the war machine necessarily. Just because there is no food for the typical american family does not mean that american army cannot draft soldiers, or that american industry cannot make bombs. I cannot say whether this makes the war more or less likely that the US economy is falling apart, but I would not say that I would rule it out.

4. I think the reason for the plans to attack Pakistan and Afghanistan are because of China and Iran. The neocons and globalists want to attack Iran, but the Military experts in the US tell them that if they do that, the US will lose very badly. In part this is because a three-way alliance with Iran, China, and either Pakistan or Afghanistan, would make China able to funnel arms to Iran. So they will want to cut off Iran, isolate it, surround it. And they will try to do this in the name of capturing Osama Bin Laden (don't get me started on this. I have no idea if this man is alive, or where he is, or whether he even had anything to do with september 11th attacks, and I am not sure anyone knows, but at this point, I don't care, it is not worth this war)

Anyway, I would disagree with the military analysts, and I would say, the US would lose a war with Iran even without Iran getting help from China. I think the US would probably lose a war with Pakistan. In all fairness, I have seen our military technology, and it is very impressive. I think that we have the capability to blow a lot of stuff up. We seem to lack the ability to put it back together, but much more important than any of that, we lack the will. America has become incredibly corrupt. There are lots of people who make a huge profit over losing a war, or letting it drag on forever. America, if determined, could maybe defeat Pakistan, maybe, but maybe not. But America as it is will lose, sure. But this too is not the point. America will do a lot of damage to whomever it attacks, because the US military has put lots of effort into making bombs and weapons systems. I think not just Pakistan, but Syria, Somalia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq are all likely targets. Maybe even Venezuela. It is important to me to do whatever I can to make sure that this whole serial war thing come to an end, because we are liable to make any place we attack become unliveable, with landmines everywhere, and destruction to populations, environment, etc.

I feel like right now I am getting somewhere, because we are talking here about this. This is definitely a step in the right direction. I can tell you that the American people overall are very opposed to war, but pretty powerless. There was a lot of support for some candidates who ruled out any more wars for the US, and the Media gave them very little exposure, so they disappeared. I am not sure which candidate is least likely to give us more war, Obama, or maybe McCain, but Clinton is undoubtedly most likely. But this choice too, I think we have no power over. We can vote, and will, but I think if we were allowed to vote for issues, it's clear. 4/5 Americans oppose more war. about 3% i read really are afraid of terrorists. A lot are concerned about the US economy.

Two more things, about the US:

1. This change of power is time consuming, and will probably give us a little break. I think it might be until 2010 before some new war plan comes into action. Most war-presidents it has taken them two years to start a new war. that's no guarantee, but I think it's very possible.

2. reaching the american people in an effective way takes some doing. Most often I think that the messages from the middle east that come through are serious and depressing to americans, because we feel we have no power to do anything, so we tend to distract ourselves with more cheerful things. Making a positive impression is tricky, but worth doing. The american people are not against you, and can probably be won over, and we are not the same thing as the american govt. The US media like CNN is going to continue to lie about the war, and try to turn americans against islam, etc. But, if most americans are not on that side, it will be very hard for the US to get into the war. There could be riots in the US, etc. like there were during the war with vietnam.

little things like I'm sure everyone heard that in palestine some Hamas person made a statement in favor of Obama. Most americans I think sympathize with the objectives of hamas somewhat, for the palestinian state, but overall, this does not help Obama. This is because in the US, hamas has been painted as terrorists, and the US media has really tried to villainize anything that is opposed to Israel. It's really best to avoid all of this and focus on positive things, and some things that are entertaining, etc.

If you look at what has really made an impact on the american scene recently, it has been Obama Girl, Ron Paul, Mike Huckabee, Steven Colbert, Jon Stewart. Also note who has not had a lot of effect: Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, James Dobson. Maybe there is some effect from Ariana Huffington and Rush Limbaugh, but I think it's pretty small. This is because all of these people who have little impact are very negative. Americans are facing a pretty dismal future, we do not want to think about depressing things. So, people who have hopeful things, funny things, or just tell us the straight talk, this has an impact. But also, bearing in mind, the media will filter, so it is very tricky. But the art of "How to reach the american people and get them on your side" is a delicate matter which requires understanding how americans think, and what channels of communication they really pay attention to, what sort of stuff they listen to.

Before getting to that, I needed to get the idea across that it is worth doing for some people in Pakistan to reach some people in America, that we can understand one another, even if our governments do not. Then, all economic worries and political manipulations aside, I think we can make it very difficult for some US president to start bombing people.
Sat May 10, 2008 8:40 am View user's profile Send private message
fraz1019
Pak Newbie


Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 14

nothing gonna change Reply with quote
all politicians are same no expectations are there.
Sat May 10, 2008 9:52 am View user's profile Send private message
priyanka08
Pak Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 27
Location: india

War on Terror Reply with quote
American Troll,

I had never been to America. I guess your economy is atleast twice that of Japan's, which is the second largest. As a largest economy in the world, your case is not like ours. Relax, I dont think one stubid President can make you Third world citizens.

I think Obama will get the democratic nomination and he'll be the next president. bloo.. hell, your votes are determining our fates. So, before you vote think about us too.

Ugwaraich,

I dont buy the argument of 'War on Terror' anymore. I think terrorism can be effectively controlled by the use of soft power. Understand them if they have some genuine points and encourage them to drop the gun. Or if they are simply blood thirsty, flush them out.

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Tue May 13, 2008 6:22 pm View user's profile Send private message
Fawad-DigitalOutreachTea
Pak Newbie


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Washington DC

Re: War on Terror Reply with quote
priyanka08 wrote:
American Troll,

I think terrorism can be effectively controlled by the use of soft power. Understand them if they have some genuine points and encourage them to drop the gun. Or if they are simply blood thirsty, flush them out.




کسی بھی تناظے ميں امن معاہدہ يقينی طور پر ايک خوش آئند بات ہے۔ ليکن يہاں پر بات ايک ايسے گروہ کی ہو رہی ہے جسے حکومت پاکستان تمام تر ثبوتوں کے ساتھ دہشت گرد تسليم کر چکی ہے۔ ايک طرف تو آپ اس الزام کی بنياد پر امريکہ کی مخالفت کرتے ہيں کہ امريکہ افغانستان ميں بے گناہ شہريوں کو مار رہا ہے ليکن دوسری جانب دہشت گردی ميں ملوث طالبان اور القائدہ سے "امن مذاکرات" کو خوش آئند قرار ديتے ہيں۔ ياد رہے کہ يہ وہی دہشت گرد گروپ ہيں جو پچھلے کئ ماہ سے پاکستان کے ہر شہر ميں بے گناہ شہريوں کو بغير کسی تفريق کے قتل کر رہے ہيں۔


فواد – ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
digitaloutreach@state.gov
http://usinfo.state.gov

Tue May 13, 2008 9:26 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nouman310
Pak Newbie


Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 14

Reply with quote
now nawaz has decided to seprate from government which will go in the favour of musherf
Tue May 13, 2008 10:53 pm View user's profile Send private message
priyanka08
Pak Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 27
Location: india

Reply with quote
Quote:
کسی بھی تناظے ميں امن معاہدہ يقينی طور پر ايک خوش آئند بات ہے۔ ليکن يہاں پر بات ايک ايسے گروہ کی ہو رہی ہے جسے حکومت پاکستان تمام تر ثبوتوں کے ساتھ دہشت گرد تسليم کر چکی ہے۔ ايک طرف تو آپ اس الزام کی بنياد پر امريکہ کی مخالفت کرتے ہيں کہ امريکہ افغانستان ميں بے گناہ شہريوں کو مار رہا ہے ليکن دوسری جانب دہشت گردی ميں ملوث طالبان اور القائدہ سے "امن مذاکرات" کو خوش آئند قرار ديتے ہيں۔ ياد رہے کہ يہ وہی دہشت گرد گروپ ہيں جو پچھلے کئ ماہ سے پاکستان کے ہر شہر ميں بے گناہ شہريوں کو بغير کسی تفريق کے قتل کر رہے ہيں۔


فواد – ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ

Fawad-DigitalOutreachTea,

Since it is a reply to my comment, i'd like to know what you said. So can you please say it in english?

Is it urdu or some other language?

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Thu May 15, 2008 2:52 pm View user's profile Send private message
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