Forum Pakistan
New User? Register | Search | Memberlist | Log in
Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums
Pakistani forum to discuss Pakistani Media, Siasat, Politics Talk Shows, Khaber Akhbar, Khel, Cricket, Film, Dramas, Songs, Videos, Shairy, Shayari, Pyar Mohabbat ki Kahani, Tourism, Hotels, Fashion, Property, Naukary Gupshup and more.
Watch TV OnlineLive RadioListen QuranAkhbarFree SMS PakistanResults OnlineUrdu EditorLollywoodLive Cricket Score
Government DepartmentsKSE Live RatesUseful LinksJobsOnline GamesCheck EmailPromote us
GEO News LiveGEO NewsDawn News Live TVExpress News

URDU KAY RASAM-ul-KHAT KI TABDILI KA MASLA


Bookmark and Share
 
Reply to topic    Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums Home » General Discussions
URDU KAY RASAM-ul-KHAT KI TABDILI KA MASLA
Author Message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

URDU KAY RASAM-ul-KHAT KI TABDILI KA MASLA
URDU KAY RASAM-ul-KHAT KI TABDILI KA MASLA

Kal telephone par mairi aur Dr Riaz Majid ki Urdu rasam-ul-Khat ki tabdili kay hawalah say baat ho rahi thi. Oon ka kehna tha kay Urdu kay mojoda khat ko Roman khat main badalnay ki sazashain chal rahi hain. Yah koe aaj ki baat hai, yah to bohat pehlay say ho raha hai. Mein soch main par giya kya aisa ho sakay ga aur yah behtar aqdam hoga?!

Es waqt Hindustani, (Urdu+Hindi) jo dunyan ki dusri bari aabadi kay rabtay ki zoban hai kay teen 1- Arabic bara’ay Urdu 2- Dav Nagri baray hindi jab’kah Roman (her donoon, Urdu aur hindi aur dusray bolnay aur samjhnay waloon kay mofeed hai) rasam-ul-khat raej hain aur yah aaj say nahain barsoon say, mustamal chalay aatay hain.

Es mozo par guftagu say pehlay eak baat wazay kar doon koe zoban os waqt tak mar nahain sakti jan’tak:
1- es kay doo bolnay walay mojood rehtay hain
2- eak likhnay aur eak parnay wala mojood rehta hai
3- aalat-e-notaq aur moawan aalat-e-notaq tabadeel nahain ho jatay

En teen baton kay hawala say mein yah kehnay ki positon main hoon kah Hindustani (Urdu+Hindi) ko kisi qisam ka koe khatra la’haq nahain.

Urdu kay khat badalnay say kuch nahain ho ga. Roman khat main likhi janay wali zoban seraf kitabi zoban ho gi. Kabi bhi bool chal ki zoban na ban sakay gi. Turki ka mojoda rasam-ul-khat bool chal ki zoban say laga nahain rahta. Turki ka pehaly rasam-ul-khat say mota’alq sarmaya zaya ho giya hai likin Urdu kay sath yah nahain ho sakay ga. Urdu walay oon say mukhtalif zehan kay log hain yah pehlay ko Roman main tabdeel kar lain gay. Pehli baat yah kah Roman khat ko bara’ay bool chal qabool hi nahain kiya ja’ay ga ya kya ja sakta ya es hawala say bai’haad mushkal ka eak arsa tak samna karma paray ga.
Urdu 37 bunyadi awazoon par ostawar hai jab’kah aa aur noon ghona ko shamar main nahain rakha jata likin yah aawazain kasrat say estamal main aati hain. En aawazoon kay elava 12 maha paran (bhay, phay thay waghera) tarriban itni hi alamiti awazain (zabar, zair, shad waghera) aur 163 say ziyada morakab awazain estamal main aati hain. Yah surat kisi eak alaqay tak mehdood nahain. Eak aam aadmi Roman khat kay zair-e-asar en aawazoon say kayoon’kar dast’kash ho sakay ga. Angraizi ko 1754 say omomi aur 1835 say khasusi toor par jabri zoban ka darja hasal hai. Kya yah awami maqboliat hasal kar saki hai. Jawab yaqenan naïf main ho ga. Imtihanoon main na’kam honay waloon ki sab say ziyada tadad essi main hamaisha say chali aati hai. .Fazal Din dokandar ya manay pakoroon walay ko es say kya laina daina. Zindgi kay kisi eak shobay main bhi es ko koe moqam nahain mil saka. Log apni zoban aur lehjay main baat karkay ziyada farhat mehsus kartay hain. Roman rasam-ul-khat kay raej ho janay say logoon kay aalat-e-notaq aur moawan aalat-e-notaq badal nahain jaein gay. Lihaza es ziman main koe fikar ki baat nahain essay sansikrat ki tara kitabi zoban say ziyada darja hasal na ho pa’ay ga. Ta’hum Dav Nagri khat aur Hindustani (Urdu+Hindi) bolnay aur samjhnay waloon kay mabain tehri rabatoon kay hawala say es rasam-ul-khat ki hosla afzae bura amal nahain.
Es pehlo kay elawa bolnay kay ziman main koe khatar’kha natija baramad na ho sakay ga aur yah main baray wasooq say keh raha hoon aur es par her hawala say guftagu ki position main hoon. Roman rasam-ul-khat ka her hami jab chahay mairay sath es ziman main kisi bhi waqt guftagu kar lay.

_________________
iushah
Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:45 pm View user's profile Send private message
duaa
Pak Newbie


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 35

Reply with quote
salam 2 all!

dr. sahb! first of all i wud like to say that it really feels good whenever pure urdu is used n i really admire ur "shusta aur sakeel urdu" as for as this topic z concerned, i'd only say that agar aisa ho jae k urdu rasm-ul-khat ko roman mae tabdeel kr dia jae, to urdu k readers ko jitni mushkil ho gi uska andaza ap k post kie hue topics ko parhne mae lagne wali der n mushkil se lagaya ja sakta hae!!! Smile plz dnt take it negatively. i really have this point k roman mae likhi hui urdu parhna bohat mushkil kaam hae....
Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:08 am View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

URDU KAY RASAM-ul-KHAT KI TABDILI Reply with quote
aap ki khasusi tovajo k liay mumnoon hoon.
Allah sahib aap ko kush rakhy.

_________________
iushah
Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:52 pm View user's profile Send private message
ahmet2910
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 909

Reply with quote
YES I AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE

UNDER THE PRESENT RASM UL KHAT BOTH READING AND WRITING URDU IS DIFFICULT
BECAUSE MOST OF THE ALPHABETS CHANGES THEIR FORM ACCORDING TO THEIR PLACE IN THE WORD
FOR EXAMPLE, ALIF, LAAM, FEY, BEY, ETC ETC

SO WHILE LEARNING TO READ OR WRITE ONE HAS TO LEARN ALL THESE FORMS OF A SINGLE ALPHABET
AND THUS LEARNING BECOMES DIFFICULT

TURKISH IN ITS PREVIOUS FORM USED TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM, WHICH HAD LED TO REDUCED LITERACY RATE

URDU CAN BE CONVERTED VERY EASILY TO ALPHABETS LIKE TURKISH LANGUAGE HAVE NOW

ITS NOT A BIG TASK

I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE A BIT HOMEWORK ON THIS SUBJECT
I WOULD BE PLEASED TO SHARE WITH YOU LEARNED PEOPLE THIS HOMEWORK OF MINE
Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:18 pm View user's profile Send private message
ahmet2910
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 909

Reply with quote
[/quote]Turki ka pehaly rasam-ul-khat say mota’alq sarmaya zaya ho giya hai
Quote:


UNFORTUNATELY I DONT AGREE WITH THIS OBSERVATION OF YOURS
tHE TURKISH NATION DID TAKE PAIN TO REWRITE MOST OF THE OLD BOOKS, IF NOT ALL, IN THE NEW FORM

Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:22 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

urdu rasam-ul-khat ka masla Reply with quote
ahmet2910 wrote:
Turki ka pehaly rasam-ul-khat say mota’alq sarmaya zaya ho giya hai
Quote:


UNFORTUNATELY I DONT AGREE WITH THIS OBSERVATION OF YOURS
tHE TURKISH NATION DID TAKE PAIN TO REWRITE MOST OF THE OLD BOOKS, IF NOT ALL, IN THE NEW FORM
[/quote]
ekhtalaf aap ka adbi aur asoli haq hai.
wo sab ossay tara say na'ay khat main muntaqil nahain howa aur ya mumkin bhi nahin.
aap ko es hawala say mazeed tehqeeq karni chahiay ta'kah mujh say mamoli talib-e-ilm ko bhi faeda ho say.
shukarreya janab

_________________
iushah
Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:49 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

Reply with quote
ahmet2910 wrote:
YES I AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE

UNDER THE PRESENT RASM UL KHAT BOTH READING AND WRITING URDU IS DIFFICULT
BECAUSE MOST OF THE ALPHABETS CHANGES THEIR FORM ACCORDING TO THEIR PLACE IN THE WORD
FOR EXAMPLE, ALIF, LAAM, FEY, BEY, ETC ETC

SO WHILE LEARNING TO READ OR WRITE ONE HAS TO LEARN ALL THESE FORMS OF A SINGLE ALPHABET
AND THUS LEARNING BECOMES DIFFICULT

TURKISH IN ITS PREVIOUS FORM USED TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM, WHICH HAD LED TO REDUCED LITERACY RATE

URDU CAN BE CONVERTED VERY EASILY TO ALPHABETS LIKE TURKISH LANGUAGE HAVE NOW

ITS NOT A BIG TASK

I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE A BIT HOMEWORK ON THIS SUBJECT
I WOULD BE PLEASED TO SHARE WITH YOU LEARNED PEOPLE THIS HOMEWORK OF MINE

janab ki tovajo aur mohabat mairay liay bari maeniviat rakhti hai.
mein arz yah karna chahata hoon kitaboon k hawala say aisa ho bhi giya to es ki koe ehmiat nahain ho gi. yah seraf aur seraf sansikrat ki se zoban ho gi.
logoon k aalat-e-notaq aur moawan aalat-e-notaq jo qudrat ki ata hain oon ko kis tara tabdeel kiya ja sakay ga.
Hindustani (Urdu+Hindi) ki aawazoon ka apna nazam hai aur yah yahaan k logoon say wasta rakhta hai.
dunyan ki koe zoban aawazoon k hawala say Hindustani ka moqabla nahain kar sakti aur mein apnay es biyan k hawala say her tara ki guftagu ki position main hoon.
aap nay tovajo farmae es k liay aap ka bohat bohat shukarreya.
Allah Sahib aap ko kush rakhay.

_________________
iushah
Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:00 pm View user's profile Send private message
I K QAZI
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 14920
Location: Germany

Reply with quote
Humari majboori he ke hume Roman Urdu me iss Forum par likhna parrtha he QK hume nahih mahloom ke kaise Urdu Rasm Ul Khat me likhte hain warna tho jo maza Urdu ko asli rasm ul khat me parrne likhne ka he, wo roman me kahah.Hume konsi aisi zaroorat parr gayi he ke hum Urdu ka Rasm ul khat tabdeel kareh "Original Is Original".Meri Maadri zabaan Pashto he,me Angrezi schooloh ka parra huwa hoon lehkin chunke mujhe Urdu achi laghti thi iss liye Muthaleha kartha raha aur iss ko aisi zabaan paya ke jiss me khud ko behter thor se, apne khayalaat aur jazbaat ko bayaan (Express) kar sakthe hain.Har aik cheez ke liye dilchaspi ka hona zaroori hotha he,aur jab aap ko kisi cheez se lagao ho ga aap uss ke liye koshish kareh ge seekne ki aur issi tarrah dilchaspi barrthi jaye gi.Siway Turkiyo ke mujhe yaad nahih ke kissi aur Mulk ya Qaom ne Murawaj rasm ul Khat tabdeel kiya ho.Jabke Turki me ye iss liye waqya pazeer huwa ke "Zabardast Ka Jabbar" tha aur ussi ke yaani ATTA TURK ke complexes aur Arabioh se nafrat thi (Nahi nasal ke liye kohi doosra raasta nahih tha ya uss se unn ko waqfiyat aur raghbat he)no other way left & no alternative.Me samajhtha hoon ke Urdu humare liye bahami raabthe aur apna "mahfi ul zameer" wahzeh thor par bayaan karne ka zariya ban chuka he aur iss ki saari khubsurati bhi iss ke Arabi rasm ul khat ki waja se he.Issi se hum mahnoos bhi hain aur issi me hume lutf bhi aatha he.Yahah Germany me har 20 Km par lahja aur dialect (Boli) change ho jathi he (Aisa humare Pashto zabaan aur hilaqoh me bhi he,siway Adabi Pashto ke) lehkin meri hat al wassa koshish thi aur he ke humesha "Hoch Deutsch"(High German yaani Adabi Germani) me ghuftagu karoo jis se taleem yaafta tabaqe par aik musbat assar hotha he.Issi tarrah hume chahihe ke hum apni Qomi zabaan ko ahmiat de,lagan se iss ko seekhe tab hi iss ki ahmiyat humare dilloh me barre ghi.Me tho iss cheez ka na sirf qahil hoon balke iss par hamal bi karne ki koshish kartha hoon ke aadmi apni asaliyat se pyar kare balke uss par fakhar kare,usse issi tarah qabool aur maqbool kare jis se ke uss ki infiradiyat aur ahmiyat barqarar rehthi he.Ghalib,Iqbal,Faiz,Faraz Etc ko Roman me parrne mo lutf tho nhih mille ga jo Asal rasm ul khat me he aur jis se apnahiyat ka ahsaas bhi zinda rahtha he.Apni cheezoh,asliyat,Tehzeeb,zaban,Aqdaar waghaira se pyar karreh.
Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:22 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

urdu rasam-ul-khat ka masla Reply with quote
Shukarreya janab, aap nay es hisas moamlay ki taraf puri mohabat tovajo farmae.

Mein seraf itna araz karma chahata hoon kah her cheez kay apnay taqazay aur apni zarotin hoti hain ohain onhi kay hawaloon say daikhna ziyada zarori faeda’mand hota hai. Oon kay liay koe dosri ainak estamal main laein gay to masla olajhta chala ja’ay ga.
Mein qatan yah nahain kehna chahata kay roman rasm-ul-khat khatam kar diya ja’ay yah sadyoon say raej chala aata hai. Es ki zarorat hai es liay essay barqarar rehna chahiay. Aaj kay ehhad kay hawala say es ki teen zaroratain hain:
a- Net par word main ziyada’tar likha jata hai.
b- Dev Nagri waloon say es kay hawala say rabta rehta hai jo entahae zarori hai.
c- Dusri zobanoon walay jo boltay aur samjhtay hai. Yah oon ki bhi zarorat hai.
Mazay ki baat yah kah donoon group (b, c) alfaz ki aawazoon ko asal lehjay hi main bolain gay. Roman main toay aur tay kay liay “t” mustamal hai. Tara ko toay say hi samjha ja’ay ga. Baat kay liay” t” ko oski asa;l aawaz say hi samjha aur bola ja’ay ga.

Japani main char tara kay lisani nazam raej hain (1- hiragana 2- katakana 3- romji (romanji) 4- kanji) zoban par kya faraq par raha hai? Kusch bhi to nahain.
Hindustani (Urdu+Hindi) kay bhi 3 khat 3 hawaloon say mojood rahain gay to kya qiyamat toot paray gi aur kya noqsan ho raha hai jis ka azala ho sakay ga?!. Yah 3noon hawalay apna vajood aur jawaz rakhtay hain.

Aap daikh lain Pakhto ki pasnch zati aawazain hain:
a1- seem
2- khein
3- ziem
b4- gay
5- nar
Roman main en ki mutradaf aawazain kahan say laein gay. Gher Pakhtonoon kay/say Rabtay kay liay roman khat ka estamal hota hai to koe haraj nahain likin pukhtonoon kay apnay aalat-e-notaq aur moawan aalat-e-notaq hain es liay oon par yah khat kayoon’kar impose kiya ja sakta hai. Yah mumkin hi nahain kah oon kay liay roman khat koe natija samnay la sakay gi.

_________________
iushah
Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:19 pm View user's profile Send private message
I K QAZI
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 14920
Location: Germany

Reply with quote
Very right,thankfull to you for your work & concideration.Bus Humari zabaan he,hume iss ko issi tarah qabool karna chahiye aur iss ki iss ki apni mojhuda hahiyat me hi iss ki tarweej karni chahiye.Pakhto(Pushto) ke muhtaliq aap ne teek kaha he,ab kal ko loag hum se kahe ke Pashto ka Rasm ul khat bhi tabdeel kar deh tho ye tho na munasib taqaza ho ga.Keep it up well contributed.Wa Assalam Ramazan Mubbarak.
Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:16 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

urdu rasam-ul-khat ka masla Reply with quote
janab munasib ya na'monasib ki baat hi nahain baat aawazoon ki aadaegi ki hai.
urdu ki choti aawaz aur toay k liay seraf t hai. angraiz ki to mujbori hai likin urdu bolanay walay ki kya majbori hai.
eesi tara pakhto ki 43 aawazoon main say baishtar aawazain kahan say aaein gi. morakbaat masla hal nahain kar saktay. wo to eak haad tak sath daitay hain.
aap ki tovajo k liay mumnoon hoon.
Allah Sahib aap ko kush rakhay.

_________________
iushah
Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:51 pm View user's profile Send private message
I K QAZI
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 14920
Location: Germany

Reply with quote
Dr.Sahab hum to huwe aam loag ye tho aap doctaroh ka kaam he ke hamali taor par iss ke liye kaam kareh.Hum tho sirf Sara hi sakhte hain beech ki gehrahiyoh ka idraak hume tho nahih ho sakta aur na hi hum iss qabil hain ke adabi taor par iss me contribute kar sakhe.Litrature aur thesis ka kaam tho uss zaban par kaam karne walo ka hota he.Hum tho tehre "Pathro Wale"(Gemology) be adab.Jin bareekiyoh ka zikar aap ne Pashto ke mutahliq kiya he uss ka bhi Ilm mujhe ziyada nahih.Anyway keep it up we can learn a lot from you.Wish you all the best.
Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:27 pm View user's profile Send private message
alisarwar
Pak Newbie


Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 26

URDU Reply with quote
MAY BE THE WILL CALL IT UDRU NOW
Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:10 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

urdu rasam-ul-khat ka masla Reply with quote
inayat khan qazi wrote:
Dr.Sahab hum to huwe aam loag ye tho aap doctaroh ka kaam he ke hamali taor par iss ke liye kaam kareh.Hum tho sirf Sara hi sakhte hain beech ki gehrahiyoh ka idraak hume tho nahih ho sakta aur na hi hum iss qabil hain ke adabi taor par iss me contribute kar sakhe.Litrature aur thesis ka kaam tho uss zaban par kaam karne walo ka hota he.Hum tho tehre "Pathro Wale"(Gemology) be adab.Jin bareekiyoh ka zikar aap ne Pashto ke mutahliq kiya he uss ka bhi Ilm mujhe ziyada nahih.Anyway keep it up we can learn a lot from you.Wish you all the best.

aap nay es say pehlay khoob khoob likha hai.
aap ki shirkat say bari madad mili hai.
likhtay rahain.
shukarreya janab.

_________________
iushah
Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:12 pm View user's profile Send private message
Dr Maqsood Hasni
Senior Member Pakistani
Senior Member Pakistani


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 970
Location: punjab

Re: URDU Reply with quote
alisarwar wrote:
MAY BE THE WILL CALL IT UDRU NOW

kindly zara khul kar baat karain,
shukarreya.

_________________
iushah
Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:19 pm View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:    
Reply to topic    Forum Pakistan - Pakistani Forums Home » General Discussions All times are GMT + 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Gupshup Forum: Urdu ForumIslam ForumPakistan Army ForumAap Ka SheharNaukaryPakistani Visa
Desi Sports and News: Live CricketSports ForumAkhbar OnlinePakistan EventsWorld News Discussion
Entertainment Media: PTV ForumGEO ForumLollywood ForumBollywood OnlineHollywood ForumDesi Radio
Desi Masala Forums: Gupshup Chit ChatComputer GamesMusic ForumDrama ForumsGhazal ForumDesi FashionDesi Food
Official Forums (Government Department): Dak Khana ChatPolice ForumWapda OnlinePTCL ForumUfone ForumRailway ForumSehat Chit ChatTaleem OnlineTax Forum PKZameen ForumAdalat Forum


Pure Pakistani forum to express your views, thoughts with complete freedom. Archives 1 2
Copyright © ForumPakistan.com 2013 All rights reserved.

Contact Us | Advertise | Report Abuse | FP Team | Disclaimer