Questions or confusions of non muslims about muslims in.....

There should be one topic for one issue,

It has become very complex

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Respect All
Long Live Pakistan
In the end All praises are due to Lord

RA, that seems to be true now. So Arsh Abrar, could you please make different topics in this section for whatever types of things you want to discuss to make it more clear for the readers.

okay... i know its a late reply....n i admit its not bcz i dint read it its bcz i ws avoiding this argument...
n ths is nt bcz i agree with wat u've said ..bt bcz i ve quite strongly felt tht ..

Religion shud not be tested by logic.. bcz Faith needs no logic..
n i think Religions were simply made to answer those questions which our rational mind n science cant give...

n wat a person speak or think js reflects hw he/she ws brought up...Our perceptions n way of thinking differs js because of tht..
n after reading the last post i ve felt that it wud b impossible for me to understand you..after reading your views abt men and women i m quite sure that
there is no point arguing..

Quote:

Men has always been the bread winner for the family and this is his job, the best and primary job for a woman is to bring up her children in a civilised and best manner, this makes up the best nations, just like a man cannot give birth to a baby and a woman can. Another point to be noted here is that a child can only be identified by his father not his mother, because a woman can have several children from different husbands but a man doesn’t actually give birth to a child but he is the actual cause. The reason why men cannot become a public property is because they are bread winners they are stronger than women in financial matters while woman is stronger than men in taking care and managing of home and households. So men wouldn’t sell themselves for money, but women do because they are helpless and unstable. Men are tough and they know how to survive in tough conditions while woman are different than men in mentality, they easily get stressed out and nervous, this is one of the reasons why we need two women witnesses for a murder in Islam and one man witness. Because women are terrified by the idea of murder and its hard for them to handle the situation. I am not offending genders but this is what I think is true, and there lies the splendour/magnificance or beauty of a woman in being shy, nervous and being dominated by a man (excuse me).

i dnt know hw many rational ppl will agree with ur above views.. n i wonder if islam too agree with these points??n if the muslim women agree who am i to raise my eyebrow on that..

	Quote:
	Anyways I don’t know why are you bushing about the same marriage issue as we have already given you so many reasons why a woman cannot marry multiple men.

cz i cud ve moved further only after understanding the ans. of my first question(vaise i hadother questions too which were nt answered)...bt after reading ur views abt women (n assuming tht every muslim think so) i will never ask this question again

bt even now i dnt claim to ve understood everything bt atleast one thing tht ppl r different ..n you cant question others thinking .. spcly abt religion n tht too wen its not harming me.. i dont know why am i poking my nose in this..
i think i shud b thankful to u tht u were so patient . n so tolerant to answer the questions of a female.. who s prime duty is jst to serve her family n obey the orders..
i js remember a line by Marrie Stopes..

"A woman cant be free cz she does nt have right on her own body"

actually i feel it ws my fault .I ws in very idealistic n simplified world. i jst thought there r ideal answers to every question ..

Well I am sure you took my last post in a wrong way, this is the reason why I didn’t want to open the ends of the discussion but anyways the central idea of my previous post was that men and women are different not in rights but in duties, they have same rights but different nature of duties this is why our religion has its values that moulds our lives into it naturally, while writing my last post I had this in my mind that you were going to take it wrong and flick the coin on the other side and prove that we see women as “inferior creature” which is absolutely and utterly wrong, I think Islam is the only religion that respects and honours women and give them their rights (if it is implemented properly), I am not gona go into the rationality of my previous post but I am sure that you misinterpreted it. Of course there could be different approaches to answer a single question, anyway God knows best, but there are few things for which the logic has been explained in Islam and its holy book.

	Quote:
	Religion shud not be tested by logic.. bcz Faith needs no logic.. n i think Religions were simply made to answer those questions which our rational mind n science cant give...

True but it is logic that strengthens your faith and I do agree religions were made to answer questions which we can’t think of.

	Quote:
	i dnt know hw many rational ppl will agree with ur above views.. n i wonder if islam too agree with these points??n if the muslim women agree who am i to raise my eyebrow on that..

Now you are questioning the rationality of my views, anyways, I prefer to be direct and upfront in my talks or discussions and expect the same from others. If you are doing it then do it properly. I would very much like to speak to you about these issues and do appreciate the effort you put in to talk about these topics. So, could you please be more open and bold in your discussion as you have the rights to do so and I guarantee you that you will not have any inappropriate response from anyone. So I save my words till I have a direct response from you on my last post.

	Quote:
	i js remember a line by Marrie Stopes.. "A woman cant be free cz she does nt have right on her own body"

well that explains it all that what kind of impression you had, which clearly is the misunderstanding of what I wrote, I am extremely disappointed.

ugwaraich wrote:

Well I am sure you took my last post in a wrong way, this is the reason why I didn’t want to open the ends of the discussion but anyways the central idea of my previous post was that men and women are different not in rights but in duties, they have same rights but different nature of duties this is why our religion has its values that moulds our lives into it naturally, while writing my last post I had this in my mind that you were going to take it wrong and flick the coin on the other side and prove that we see women as “inferior creature” which is absolutely and utterly wrong, I think Islam is the only religion that respects and honours women and give them their rights (if it is implemented properly), I am not gona go into the rationality of my previous post but I am sure that you misinterpreted it. Of course there could be different approaches to answer a single question, anyway God knows best, but there are few things for which the logic has been explained in Islam and its holy book.

	Quote:
	Religion shud not be tested by logic.. bcz Faith needs no logic.. n i think Religions were simply made to answer those questions which our rational mind n science cant give...

True but it is logic that strengthens your faith and I do agree religions were made to answer questions which we can’t think of.

	Quote:
	i dnt know hw many rational ppl will agree with ur above views.. n i wonder if islam too agree with these points??n if the muslim women agree who am i to raise my eyebrow on that..

Now you are questioning the rationality of my views, anyways, I prefer to be direct and upfront in my talks or discussions and expect the same from others. If you are doing it then do it properly. I would very much like to speak to you about these issues and do appreciate the effort you put in to talk about these topics. So, could you please be more open and bold in your discussion as you have the rights to do so and I guarantee you that you will not have any inappropriate response from anyone. So I save my words till I have a direct response from you on my last post.

	Quote:
	i js remember a line by Marrie Stopes.. "A woman cant be free cz she does nt have right on her own body"

well that explains it all that what kind of impression you had, which clearly is the misunderstanding of what I wrote, I am extremely disappointed.

nice explanation

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«´¨`·.Shakeel Ahmed ..·´¨`»
*(¸.·'´(¸.·'´*¤*`'·.¸)`'·.¸)*

(((**A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes**))

shakeelmscw wrote:

ugwaraich wrote:

Well I am sure you took my last post in a wrong way, this is the reason why I didn’t want to open the ends of the discussion but anyways the central idea of my previous post was that men and women are different not in rights but in duties, they have same rights but different nature of duties this is why our religion has its values that moulds our lives into it naturally, while writing my last post I had this in my mind that you were going to take it wrong and flick the coin on the other side and prove that we see women as “inferior creature” which is absolutely and utterly wrong, I think Islam is the only religion that respects and honours women and give them their rights (if it is implemented properly), I am not gona go into the rationality of my previous post but I am sure that you misinterpreted it. Of course there could be different approaches to answer a single question, anyway God knows best, but there are few things for which the logic has been explained in Islam and its holy book.

	Quote:
	Religion shud not be tested by logic.. bcz Faith needs no logic.. n i think Religions were simply made to answer those questions which our rational mind n science cant give...

True but it is logic that strengthens your faith and I do agree religions were made to answer questions which we can’t think of.

	Quote:
	i dnt know hw many rational ppl will agree with ur above views.. n i wonder if islam too agree with these points??n if the muslim women agree who am i to raise my eyebrow on that..

Now you are questioning the rationality of my views, anyways, I prefer to be direct and upfront in my talks or discussions and expect the same from others. If you are doing it then do it properly. I would very much like to speak to you about these issues and do appreciate the effort you put in to talk about these topics. So, could you please be more open and bold in your discussion as you have the rights to do so and I guarantee you that you will not have any inappropriate response from anyone. So I save my words till I have a direct response from you on my last post.

	Quote:
	i js remember a line by Marrie Stopes.. "A woman cant be free cz she does nt have right on her own body"

well that explains it all that what kind of impression you had, which clearly is the misunderstanding of what I wrote, I am extremely disappointed.

nice explanation

Thanks bro. I hope you join in with me and help me in clearing all the mockery that world has created about Islam. By the way, it seems like you just discovered this section of forum pakistan. welcome anyway!

arsh brar wrote:

well.. i read wat u ve written..
u have posed many questions but not many have been answered..
dont misunderstand me...i respect islam
n as u said like other non muslims i dont know much abt islam...
n too feel its complicated...
n spcly abt women's rights..
i ve heard that a man can marry 4 times...can a woman do the same?
in courts..a woman witness is considered half gud to man...
n in case of rape..she cant file case unless she has a witness??
i m nt challenging islam
just want to know is it true????

Before you ask about other religion or their women, try to upgrade your poor knowledge.
Just have look on these 2 diffrent topic from India. These are just two. I do have lots of
other shame isues from India against women in India. But since I got many request be quite to not let it
beginn a war here. Therefore I want you to upgrade your poor knowledge too.

1. http://www.forumpakistan.com/two-women-molested-again-in-mumbai-india-on-new-year-eve-t6143.html.
2. http://www.forumpakistan.com/patna-boys-barge-into-girls-hostel-on-new-year-eve-india-t6145.html.

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

Kia bhol gaye apni Indian old history ko jaab eik auraat ko satti hona padta tha,
apne patti ki chitta ke sath Question

Do you remember that Question

That was a part of hinduism once. Wink

Wondring that those people who ask about Islam why they don`t look at their own
natural history Question

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

According to your wish I move this topic.
@nline.

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

Last edited by @nline on Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:38 pm; edited 2 times in total

@nline wrote:

arsh brar wrote:

well.. i read wat u ve written..
u have posed many questions but not many have been answered..
dont misunderstand me...i respect islam
n as u said like other non muslims i dont know much abt islam...
n too feel its complicated...
n spcly abt women's rights..
i ve heard that a man can marry 4 times...can a woman do the same?
in courts..a woman witness is considered half gud to man...
n in case of rape..she cant file case unless she has a witness??
i m nt challenging islam
just want to know is it true????

Before you ask about other religion or their women, try to upgrade your poor knowledge.
Just have look on these 2 diffrent topic from India. These are just two. I do have lots of
other shame isues from India against women in India. But since I got many request be quite to not let it
beginn a war here. Therefore I want you to upgrade your poor knowledge too.

1. http://www.forumpakistan.com/two-women-molested-again-in-mumbai-india-on-new-year-eve-t6143.html.
2. http://www.forumpakistan.com/patna-boys-barge-into-girls-hostel-on-new-year-eve-india-t6145.html.

bro, she was just asking/putting up questions about Islam, she was not criticising it and even if she was then let us clear the confusions they have, which is a positive thing. We should not scare other non muslims away from this topic. Lets be positive and reply them politely.

Thank you

I am not scaring her at all. Actually I treid to ask her that did she know what
happening in India or happened against women Question

According to the world report India is one of the largest country where women are
not safe at all.

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

	@nline wrote:
	I am not scaring her at all. Actually I treid to ask her that did she know what happening in India or happened against women According to the world report India is one of the largest country where women are not safe at all.

ok great, lets move the topic positively...

Any non muslims/foreigners here who need clarification about anything related to Islam or Pakistan?

Please feel free to ask.

Hi there, being a British born Muslim woman I found your 'piece' very interesting to say the least. I don't think we should throw all non-Muslims into the same boat however and refer to them as 'they', I feel that is a little harsh. I believe that we are responsible in our endeavours to discard the image and stigmas that media has placed in the minds of non-Muslims globally. It is a battle and shouldn't be, however as a Muslim I know what I am about - it's up to me wether I open up and reiterate this to others. I feel that Muslims in the UK are very confused as to what 'integration into mainstream society' means - as it have many ever-evolving definations each day.

Andleeb Hanif
(UK)

	ANDLEEB HANIF wrote:
	Hi there, being a British born Muslim woman I found your 'piece' very interesting to say the least. I don't think we should throw all non-Muslims into the same boat however and refer to them as 'they', I feel that is a little harsh. I believe that we are responsible in our endeavours to discard the image and stigmas that media has placed in the minds of non-Muslims globally.

Andaleeb Walaikum assalam,

and Welcome to the forumpakistan!

I understand where you coming from, and I hope you understand us as well when we say 'they' or when we refer to non-Muslims, we are not stacking all non muslims in the same category of good iron and bad iron, so the word they is only for those who are misled by media or are misled anyway whether being arrogant or by any other means. I hope you also get the idea that "being a non muslim is not a stigma or curse" no one is cursing non muslims, this section only provides an open platform for non muslims to openly discuss their misconceptions about Islam, so that we muslims help clearing them, if any.

This is an effort or endeavour on our part to discard the distorted image and stigmas that media has induced in the minds of non muslims, this is the sole reason why we created this section.

	Quote:
	I feel that Muslims in the UK are very confused as to what 'integration into mainstream society' means - as it have many ever-evolving definations each day.

This is a very interesting comment, I agree with you to some extent that UK Muslims are confused, but however again for the sake of identifying those factors specifically and not generalising, I think UK muslims are confused about to what degree integration into mainstream society can benefit them and yet they can live their lives as muslims. You will find UK muslims jumping up and down this clear line of limit/degree and integrating into the society either way, i-e isolating themselves from mainstream society (in which case they donot represent muslims to full strength and hence dont share enough power in UK soceity) or by penetrating too deep into the western society to an extent that they forget what they really are and what race or religion they belong to and what are its values? (although in this case they have enough opportunity to share stregnth in uk society but at the end of the day it doesnt make much difference as they are no longer called as true representation of muslims). So for UK muslims its mandatory to keep a balance between the two, there is no harm in integrating with society till the extent you are not violating basic and fundamental principle's of your religion. and I think its very easy to achieve so.
Secret lies in defining those limits and acting on them. Its no more a confusion and so called ever-evolving definitions shall all be sorted.

Anyways thank you for participating, we are expecting more useful comments from you.

Mr uqwarachi i also wanted to ask one question...can i ask??? Embarassed

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	Anni Ali wrote:
	Mr uqwarachi i also wanted to ask one question...can i ask???

yes go on.and by the way there is a tiny tingly G in my name not Q; if you find it difficult to write then you can call me Usman.

I am really srry tht was mistake...

its nothing to do wid misconcpetion its just a question tht i was curius to know...

u know genetic engineering...in tht u clone...change the infromation of a person..like eye color..hair color...sometimes even gender...

so is it allowed in islam to clone or change basic information of a humna being???
there was more but i forgot those....i will surly ask when i remember...

Anni Ali wrote:

I am really srry tht was mistake...

its nothing to do wid misconcpetion its just a question tht i was curius to know...

u know genetic engineering...in tht u clone...change the infromation of a person..like eye color..hair color...sometimes even gender...

so is it allowed in islam to clone or change basic information of a humna being???
there was more but i forgot those....i will surly ask when i remember...

anni I really appreciate that you are asking such questions to seek the reality or truth about Islam, questions like these strengthen our belief.

Let me first say before someone points his/her finger on me that I am not a scholar. Whatever knowledge I am going to propagate will be based on fatwa's or opinions from scholars.

Just as abortion of foetus is not allowed in Islam I think it is also not allowed to change the features of the newborn because that is like challenging God and customising your new born's features without God's will; also if I remember that there has been a general consensus by Islamic scholars on this issue that it is not allowed; I'll try to find a strong reference to this just as a proof and forward you the material very soon. It should all be natural. I could think of from other fatwa's and masail passed and endorsed by scholar that only if genetic engineering is being used to Cure some disease then only in that case it would be allowed because even pork and alcohol are allowed to cure someone (although pork doesnt seem to cure anything in a human body but alcohol certainly helps in some diseases).

Also if someone believes that I am wrong then please correct me and pass out the right information; that will be highly appreciable.

thnx alot for info...and apperication...

Last edited by Anni Ali on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

yes i have ceriuos to know about hindu " religion " too really with no misunderstanding ok ?? please

if some hindu can answer me

1-there is alot of gods in your religion ?? why is that ??? dont you think that one god is enaugh ????
2- you made your god in your home sometimes with simple materials right ????
and even that you still belive that this " what you make will make's you better in your life and if you are in truble he will rescue and if you are sick he will Quench you
and dont you forget that """" YOU THE ONE WHO created IT OR LETS SAID HUMAN LIKE YOU """
3-dont you think that this scatch that you make it should worship you "Astagferu Allah "
becase you the one who created it

4-dont you think the god should has Description of creation??????

5-and why some people pray to elefent or mouse or cow ????? they dont have brains (( cos as we know animals dont have brains )) why they Worshiping them

6- why you so many belives ????

7- and this is more importent why if some one come's and say's i saw our god and he tolled me to do this or anything they belive him ???????

8- why they beleive some Astrology PEOPLE who tell's you you cant married on this day or you will be die ?????
9- and why you bleive some one tolled you about your future and in the same time he cant tell's you about his own future

10- and what is the idea of climing 100 or i dont know how many stairs to arrived to the mander that place that it should be avalable to every one to come and pray what old people will do in that case ???? they will go to hill if they cant clime that stairs ??? yeah you will tell me that they have it in thier home "" from thier creation ofcarse ""
is that means that is not nesseccry to go to mander if you have this in your own home????

11- about woman why they shouldnt get married after their husbends die??? and why she should wear white dress all the time

12- why should woman put this as you call it """ sendor "" and as far as i know that its from cow's ....... you know

13- why should she throw rice before she get enter to her house for the first time ???

14-why the women should fast for thier husbends until they remember them and come to the house to feed her
he can stay in the house in that day if he really love her
is that respect for woman in your thinknig ????

15- i have seen in indian movies that some Tribes burn thier dughters after thier husbends die and before that they forced them to marry from some one who is in thier father's age ?????

16- why you burn the die people ???? and is that true what you belive in ????

17- and what about "" HOLLY "" why you make this day ??? and what is benifit from it ????

18- and why your god is has half elefent and half human and has so many hands ??????

19- its not in my mind right now but iwill ask about it later cos i have so many qustions about your """ RELIGION """ Wink

but please dont mind from my qustions at all cos i want to know thats it ok ?? Rolling Eyes

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ok i have another question...
it might sound really stupid but i really wanaa know the answer...

ok r we allowed to touch pigs...like actually hold them???

	Anni Ali wrote:
	ok i have another question... it might sound really stupid but i really wanaa know the answer... ok r we allowed to touch pigs...like actually hold them???

I think pigs are haram, just as any other haram animal is e.g. cat, dog, or other haram birds like parrots etc. I have not seen or known any Quranic verse/hadith about touching a pig(if someone knows please pass on the reference); pig is only considered as a disgusting and dirty animal and there are a few verses on pigs about it, but nothing about touching. Which means pig is haram and cannot be eaten but i think you can touch it but personally I dont feel like even touching a dog, pigs are another story so why would someone like to touch a pig when everyone knows that it is a disgusting animal? but anyways I think touching a pig is not a sin, its just that you should take care of cleanliness etc.

thnx alot for answer...
i know its discuting...but i am bio student and it is believed tht pig organs r closes to human so we have to disect them in our bio class... Embarassed

...

its yukkkkk...so its not my choice...

I think for study and learning purposes which can benefit you and other humans, there is no restriction in Islam for that. This seems to be the same case; and I think no harm in doing that.