Pakistan wants to live in peace with India: Bilawal

Declaring he has brought "hope to a new generation of Pakistanis", the man who could become Pakistan's youngest ever prime minister said Tuesday he wants his country to live peacefully with India. "I believe Pakistan should be able to live in peaceful co-existence with all its neighbours," Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, son of slain former Pakistan premier Benazir Bhutto, said at a packed press conference in London.

He was asked by IANS what he thought about his country's relations with India, as a young Pakistani leader looking beyond the coming general elections.

Although Bilawal, who was flanked by his aunt Sanam and family friends, admitted that he was inexperienced in politics and could only occupy political office at the age of 25, he put up a stout defence of the Pakistan Peoples Party's decision to appoint him party chairman.

Facing a 'who's who' of the British media - some firing rapid questions at him - the 19-year-old Oxford student flared up as he dismissed claims that the PPP was trying to maintain the Bhutto dynasty at the expense of party democracy.

Banging the table with his fist, Bhutto Zardari said, "The slogan in Pakistan is 'how many Bhuttos can you kill? From every house a Bhutto will come'."

He said his mother's assassination last month had "made me more resilient."

"I feel I really want to see democracy in Pakistan. We have lot of our best hope, but not our only hope," he added.

Wearing a dark suit, blue, open collar shirt, and overcoat, Bhutto Zardari was surprisingly calm as he fielded some difficult questions from media veterans.

Responding to a stiff challenge by BBC television news anchor Jeremy Paxman that he had been picked like a "piece of family furniture", Bhutto Zardari declared that his appointment was needed to unite Pakistan.

"It was a moment of crisis. Pakistan was burning. We needed to find a solution," he replied.

Further queried about his suitability for the job of PPP leader, given that he had never lived in Pakistan, Bhutto Zardari said, "It was no my choice to be outside Pakistan" - a reference to the fact that he had been raised abroad while his mother was in political exile.

"I cannot pretend to relate in the same way as people living there, but I am fully aware of what's happening," he said.

Before fielding questions, Bhutto Zardari read out a brief statement in which he said he had become PPP chairman because "it was recognised at the moment of crisis the party needed a close association with my mother through the blood line.

"Also it was important to give hope to the new generation of Pakistanis who are looking just to these elections but beyond.

"Politics is also in my blood. And although I admit that my experience to date is limited, I intend to learn."

"To those of you who consider it odd that a 19-year old should assume such a position... my response is as follows: my position was based on the collective will of the party, unanimously endorsed by 50 to 60 members of our Central Executive Committee" representing all the provinces of Pakistan.

He said there was a precedent when his grandfather Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was executed and his grandmother Nusrat Bhutto became chairperson.

"As you know, my mother then assumed the role."

He said he believed that his mother would be alive today had she been provided with adequate protection by the Pakistan government, but would not comment on "who we believe is responsible," as the matter was under investigation.

Bhutto Zardari appreciated British help with the probe but said he would still like a United Nations-sponsored investigation.

"We do not believe that an investigation which is under the authority of the Pakistani government has the necessary transparency. Already so much forensic evidence has been destroyed."

Finally, the young man made a strong plea to be spared the media glare so that he can pursue his studies as a normal student.

"I'm perfectly prepared to schedule press conferences such as this, but when I am at Oxford, I hope that I can be left alone," he requested.

i also think pakistan shouldnt think anymore of encircling india with the help of china or promote terrorism in india...Bhutoo family have understood the need for peace with india....India is +1 trillion $ economy..it is the second biggest market for cosumer products in the world.....
Top priorities for india and pakistan should be:

1)Forget kashmir and territorial disputes....Once we know neither pakistan will give its land to india and vice versa...These disputes have only given us 3 wars and large scale inflitration,terrorism and human rights violation in the region....we are 60 year old country and we have been facing with bigger problems like poverty,population growth,civil wars....There seems to be no soultion to kashmir...even if india and pakistan give off kashmir ,i doubt kashmir will be able to survive on its own..it might become another afganistan.......

2)Increase Trade :India and pakistan should increase trade relations...Recently india gave concesions to all LDC(bangladesg,nepal,bhutan,afganistan) of SAFTA to export their goods to india at 0% tariffs....india is also giving similar concessions to pakistan.....

3)SAFTA development:SAFTA is a free trade organization for south asean countries....It proposes free trade bween all the south asean countries......Initially all developing countries like india,pakistan,srilanka are told to allow exports from LDC countries at 0% tariff..india is significantly honest and dedicated in giving concessions to all LDC starting from jan 2008.......For trade bween developing country,there is a plan to reduce tariffs from 25-30% to 0 % by 2011.....
proposals to follow:
a)To set up SAFTA investment funds: Main aim will be to lend money and invest to all south asian countries......India has about 300 billion $ of forex reserveswhich are increasing @ Rate of 100 billion $ yearly..This money can be used to invest in the region......Shortage of investments in the region can be sorted out with this...
b) To set up a South asean free currency :There is a need to set up a south asean free currency.....A south asean free curency can be as strong as EURO.............At present indian rupee(39.25=1$) is escalting very badly and we are not able to control the appreciation which is hitting our exporters...Similarly pakistan rupee(62.25=1$)is detoriating ...nepali rupee is pegged at 1.6 times indian rupee.bhutanese currency is pegges at indian rupee.....So we see all the currencies are very unstable....with a common currency we can keep inflation low and stable,interest rates checked and create a good atmosphere for investment...
c)To pursue a common south asean currency: we will need to set up a common baking regulatory body like European union has....if all south asea nations comply with a common currency,every countries will have to be transparent and be fair towards each other.....fake currency production will be likely to hinder the deveopments of the region....
d)India factor:India cosumer market is escalating at rate of 20% annum....Once USA,europe are aiming to export as much as they can ,then why can pakistan,bangladesh can use their cheap labour by exporting goods and services to india....In india cost of raw materials is escalating 15% annumly...Cement,chemicals are becoming 2 costly.Even large scale manufacturing industries are not able to cope up with the rapid increase in consumption..

.By 2040 india will overtake USA and become second biggest economy.with population at that time about 1.5 billion will be close to population of china and it will have +1 billion middle class.Bigger than size of europe and north america.......South asean country should set up big manufacturing industries and cater to the demand........Last not that least we can be with peace if we really want to.....we should forget all kinds of tit for tat strategy and be more loyal to each other..........

Nice to hear that India plans to take over USA. . . lol

I also plan to take over my Kelpie.... He is very Naughty Nowadays...

_________________

	Quote:
	Nice to hear that India plans to take over USA. . . lol I also plan to take over my Kelpie.... He is very Naughty Nowadays...

Ya with 9% growth rate for next 32 years ...AT present USA is 13 trillion $ economy with 9.8 trillion $ of debt..while we are certainly better with 1.25 trillion $ expected in 2007-08...if u see by PPP india will be 4.2 trillion $ just 1/3 rd of USA.....

WHile USA can at max expect to grow at 3%..BY basic arithmetic 1.25[(1+.0 Cool

^32+(1+% loss in dollar rupee with respect to rupee)^No of years for which dollar goes down]=13[(1+.03)^32]...

its a simple compound interest formula...india is very stable country.Growth in india was propelled by IT sector and its mushrooming with manufacturing and infrastructure sector...There is no point we can slow down below 8%....In next five year plan,we will have a decent amount 500 billion $ pumped into infrastructure sector

1)Quadrangle project for four lane network:delhi to mumbai(via ahmedabad) to to bangalore to chennai to kolkata to delhi.....Gujrat to assam and kankyakumari to kashmir.....20% of these roads are already made and the project is going to finish by 2010...Budget:50 billion $
2)Freight corridor for railway:specific rail networks for goods train.....Budget:20 billion $.it will connect all ports...

3)Gramin sadak yojna:All villages to have metaled roads...Project aimed for 8 lak villages with estimated cost of 10 bilion $
4)RIver linking project:All rivers of india will be linked by next decade...There will be no floods and famine...Yield of crops will increase by 4 times...Budget:50 billion $

India has +21 companies in top 100 asian companies...we will be having 10-12 companies in fortune 500 in 2008...we have +150 companies which have revenue more than 1 billon $.

Core sector:

Mittal:90 billion$
Tata :50 billion$
Reliance (Mukesh ambani):50 billion$
IOCL:70 billon $
BpCl:5 billion$
NTPC:8 billion$
L&T:6 billion$
Hindalco:10 billion$ (world biggest aluminum company)
Suzlon:3-4 billion$ (world second largest wind power company)
Telcommunication:
Reliance (anil ambani):10 billion $
Airtel:5-6 billion$
Idea:2billon4
BSNL:10 billion$

IT &Software:
TCS:5.5 billion $
CTS:4 billon $
Infosys:4.5 billion $
Satyam:4 bilion $
Mindtree,iflex,l&t infotech,......There are about 50 companies with reveue between .1billon $ -1 billion$

Banking
SBI:7-8 billion$
ICICI:3-4 billion$
HDFC:1 bilion$
Canarabank:2 billion$
PNB:4 billion$
Central bank:2 billion$
There are about 18 nationalized bank and all banks have a yearly turnover above 1 billion$

Mining

1)sterlite:Revenue :10 billion $...Worlds top 10 copper,and coal producer:Mostly based in india and australia
2)Birla:revenue of 10+billion $ ..top 3 copper,aluminum producer in world...
3)Jindal: revenue of 5 billion$
4)SAIL: revenue 3-4 billion$

COnstruction:

1)DLF: revenue above 5 billion$...owner is the richest real estate builder in world
2)MGF
3)India bulls

Automobiles

1)Hero-honda:revenue above 2 billion $
2)Maruti:revenur of 5 billion $
3)Tata motors:revenue of 10 billion$....Buying Land rover and Jaguar for 2 billon$
4)Mahindra&mahindra:3-4 billion $
5)Bajat motors:1-2 billlion $
6)TVS motors:1 billion $
7)LML:1 billion $

Electronics

1)videocon:revenue 2-3 billion $...Investing 5 billon $ in poland ...world 3rd largest manufacturer of picture tubes
2)Moserbear: revenue 2 billion $...World largest producer of DVD/CD and presently investing billion $ into solar plates electonics
3)Semindia:A venture captilalist firm..backed by AMD and infineon..indias first FAB manufacturing company

Goldman sacchs expect china and india to be two biggest economies by 2040..And if u just see by numbers ,we would be about 1.5 billion compared to 40-45 crore of USA population......At present there are about 50 crore middle class and we are spending a decent amount of money ,once the living standard will increase by 6-7 times in next 32 years ..and 100 crore of people will be consuming by that time.......so there is no doubt india will overtake USA in overall size...

But i do agree that we will not be having same per-capita income as of USA.....By per-capita income we will be about 7000 $ annum compared to 30000 $ of USA.....:

Mr.Banglore
Its your big media that cry and shouting that Pakistan makes some terrorist activites in India.
I feel that there is no terrorist activites in India by Pakistan.
But what happened in Kashmir was what you indian HATE to read or listen, and that is "FREEDOM FIGHT"
India is big country with huge population and a very important country in Asia along with Pakistan.
But believe me or not its 100% true that India never ever were sincere with Pakistan NEVER. NEVER!
Just take look at history. I DO NOT hate indian people because they are friendly, but unfortunatly your huge media
makeing them fool and learning them that Pakistan doing all terrorisam activites in India even its fake. Our media is
Pakistani is so poor that they are always keep quite over Indian terrorisam in Pakistan with the support of MQM, RAW and
Afghanistan`s millitanse. I don`t care if you don`t believe it. There is also some Super Power those DO NOT want to watch
peace & friendship between Pakistan and India! Try to believe it and wash you brain against Pakistan. You interduce links and other
thibgs related to Pakistan. Unfortunatly whole world is pr today against Pakistan. The reason is that USA, Israel, India and some other
countries are much affraid by Pakistan`s nuclear power. Our nuclear program is for our defence not to go war against India or any other country.
All I have to say that your Indian media teach you wrong info about Pakistan wich you believe. But we do want friendship with India much stronger than
past. But your big Pandit like Bal Thakre, N.Modhi, Vajpaye and LK Advani and some others donot want it. You always rejecting my comments even those are 100% true, but as you are an Indian I can understand that its not your fault its yur media who full your brain withe negative thibgs about Pakistan Exclamation

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

It's true that Pakistan wants to have peaceful relationship with India. Therefore Pakistan always wanted to sort out all the problems with India peacefully on table. Unfortunately, India has always turned Pakistan's offer and used its military force to solve the problems by force. India has failed to gain anything through its military actions in Kashmir and Siachin. Rather India is losing its men and money on these fronts. It's time India come forward and sort out the bilateral disputes through peaceful dialogs. Pakistan would always welcome any peaceful solution.

rohit_bangalore wrote:

i also think pakistan shouldnt think anymore of encircling india with the help of china or promote terrorism in india...Bhutoo family have understood the need for peace with india....India is +1 trillion $ economy..it is the second biggest market for cosumer products in the world.....
Top priorities for india and pakistan should be:

1)Forget kashmir and territorial disputes....Once we know neither pakistan will give its land to india and vice versa...These disputes have only given us 3 wars and large scale inflitration,terrorism and human rights violation in the region....we are 60 year old country and we have been facing with bigger problems like poverty,population growth,civil wars....There seems to be no soultion to kashmir...even if india and pakistan give off kashmir ,i doubt kashmir will be able to survive on its own..it might become another afganistan.......

2)Increase Trade :India and pakistan should increase trade relations...Recently india gave concesions to all LDC(bangladesg,nepal,bhutan,afganistan) of SAFTA to export their goods to india at 0% tariffs....india is also giving similar concessions to pakistan.....

3)SAFTA development:SAFTA is a free trade organization for south asean countries....It proposes free trade bween all the south asean countries......Initially all developing countries like india,pakistan,srilanka are told to allow exports from LDC countries at 0% tariff..india is significantly honest and dedicated in giving concessions to all LDC starting from jan 2008.......For trade bween developing country,there is a plan to reduce tariffs from 25-30% to 0 % by 2011....
proposals to follow:
a)To set up SAFTA investment funds: Main aim will be to lend money and invest to all south asian countries......India has about 300 billion $ of forex reserveswhich are increasing @ Rate of 100 billion $ yearly..This money can be used to invest in the region......Shortage of investments in the region can be sorted out with this...
b) To set up a South asean free currency :There is a need to set up a south asean free currency.....A south asean free curency can be as strong as EURO.............At present indian rupee(39.25=1$) is escalting very badly and we are not able to control the appreciation which is hitting our exporters...Similarly pakistan rupee(62.25=1$)is detoriating ...nepali rupee is pegged at 1.6 times indian rupee.bhutanese currency is pegges at indian rupee.....So we see all the currencies are very unstable....with a common currency we can keep inflation low and stable,interest rates checked and create a good atmosphere for investment...
c)To pursue a common south asean currency: we will need to set up a common baking regulatory body like European union has....if all south asea nations comply with a common currency,every countries will have to be transparent and be fair towards each other.....fake currency production will be likely to hinder the deveopments of the region....
d)India factor:India cosumer market is escalating at rate of 20% annum....Once USA,europe are aiming to export as much as they can ,then why can pakistan,bangladesh can use their cheap labour by exporting goods and services to india....In india cost of raw materials is escalating 15% annumly...Cement,chemicals are becoming 2 costly.Even large scale manufacturing industries are not able to cope up with the rapid increase in consumption..

.By 2040 india will overtake USA and become second biggest economy.with population at that time about 1.5 billion will be close to population of china and it will have +1 billion middle class.Bigger than size of europe and north america.......South asean country should set up big manufacturing industries and cater to the demand........Last not that least we can be with peace if we really want to.....we should forget all kinds of tit for tat strategy and be more loyal to each other..........

ok , your points make a little sense but the first point about kashmir is so ludicurous that it dominates all other points. It is not our forces who are occupying Kashmir its indian forces who have been sent for bloo.. wars in kashmir, kashmiris are very happy to live with Pakistanis... if you go to Azad kashmir you will see army only on the borders with Jammu (occupied kashmir) they dont roam around within azad kashmir while on the other hand the whole jammu kashmir is full of indian troops, the population density in indian occupied kashmir is 14 soldiers per sq mile which is ridiculous, people in azad kashmir dont mourn you dont see them smashing their chests, mothers in azad kashmir dont see their young boys and girls getting killed by Pakistani Army while on the other side of the border there are tens on average who get martyred everyday. Plus the so called "terrorists" in kashmir are not terrorists they are freedomo fighters and mujahideens they are men at their best we all pay tribute to those brave people who dont give a damn about your 3 trillion dollar or 0.7 million army, they are the most beautiful people on earth in our eyes and we support them with all our hearts and prayers. you should understand that the area which you indians call as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir is one of the most peaceful lands in Pakistan, there are no killings,, now pack up your suggestions about kashmir cuz it cannot be forgotten around 8000 people have been martyred in Kashmir for the freedom cause it is not possible to buy their blood in trillions of dollars, the only solution to the problem of peace in subcontinent is Kashmir, the day india gives people of Kashmir the right to elect on their own the day your troops get out of their land we will be the first one to offer the hand for friendship...

well i do have my own mind......Indian media is very fair...it even dared to expose narendra modi issues....it is nt run by government...well Vajpayee jee is very respected in india...Although he belonged to BJP he is a political figure since independence.I dont hate pakistani people....And why should we hate u people.....But if u try to prove that pakistan never supported terrorism in india ,then u r mistaken...............Mr ugarwich u stay in a country which has been hiding all facts from u...first of all u guys were born with PTV which has a hour india criticizing approach....U can give me a name of indian channel that just for sake of it defames pakistan without any proofs........Indians are very modest and we dont hate our neighbours but some of us certainly were frustated with pakistan state policy...i know u have no say in it...

1)All ur ex political leaders lke bhutoo,nawaz sharif and even musharraf admitted to supporting insurgency in kashmir which later spread to other parts of india...

2)After 2001 pakistan had to take a u turn from its own state policy of harboring terrorists....In the war of terror,many afganis/taliwanis ran to pakistan and are still using it as a hiding place...So west later realized that it was pakistan state policy to support them...

3)MQM is a very famous party in pakistan.......it had backing of musharraf...please dont link ur local problems with india agency..RAW is just an intelligence agency to safeguard india ..we are not interested in breaking wrecked ship..........If i start thinking according 2 u,den i ll start labeling maoist/naxalists as pakistanis supported terrorism which are not...

4)Its not ur problem dude.......................Ur country didnt follow the principles of Zinnah.....The history text books of pakistans history starts from 712 AD... and den to slave dynasty and then moughals.........while we are taught the real history..we read indus valley civilization which describe mohanzodro,lothal and harappan.if the place is in pakistan it will be highlighted "Now in pakistan"................we then learnt about kushan,magadha,shaka,maurya,tripartite struggle.....There are many places which are in pakistan and we do give real credit to the places lke taxila...But we certainly dont describe gajni as indian..Same goes with muhabbad bin kasim...our history says: afgani tribals invade and plunder india and run away....Even ghauri is treated similarly but once he gives his throne to kutubuddin aibak...and they start ruling the india..Our history absorbes them...we always appreciate the moughals and its rulers ..They were the one the most respected kings in india.....WHile bahadur sah jaffar was last moughal king,we well remember the 1857 rebellion in which all nations(hindu/muslims) and rulers supported jaffar as their king for delhi...............India is a very big nation by culture and its ability to absorb +100 languages,cultures and civilizations..................if u have time pls read a text book of history written in india and then u ll understand the secular nature of our country....

Our constitution is secular and democratic.....Modi might have been a hindu CM who brutally allowed some hindu fanatics to spread riots...But india doesnt think from religion point of view...after all persons who were killed were indian...We have a law who takes care..Indian law system is very much praiseworthy....But law is law...can anyone persecute someone for a unproved guilt....only generals can do....SO we need a solid case against some person........some hindu fanatics are already getting tried...And no one can come to save them if they are found guilty... first of all They are not citizen...u can cal them a criminals and law is taking care of the situation..............i don want to finger out situation in pakistan...this will be a tit for tat scheme.....If a sia muslim kills a sunni muslim,law doesn treat them from the religion point of view..........Religion based politics started off in india in 1990's after the babri masjid thing and partially due to congress policy to appease muslims unnecessarily who were hppy otherwise..............its lke if i support muhajirs who are minority in pakistan,that might lead to escalation bween muhajir and punjabis/pashtuni/sindhi..............................

i do agree that all the blasts which happen in india are not fully pakistanis supported...There are some indigenous movements 2................

Unlike ISI indians RAW too wanted to started meddling in pakistans policy...Then at that times CHief of RAW asked permission from indian prime minister Bajpayee (PM of india heads all agency here contrary to pakistan which has generals as head ) to reciprocate the same in pakistan...AT that time our PM told that "india is known for its values in the world...we dont believe in tit for tat strategy...we dont want to let world point finger on us and say that these people are also the same...India has worked hard for last 60 years and earned a kind of respect from world community........................"

NO india wil ever agree to think of hurting its neighbours...we have already suffered a lot...

I ll tell u ,,,,,,,,,,,u go on any forum in the world.. and ask them "which is the most peaceful country in the world consdering its size,population and power"....MOst of u will say its india...................................

Ask a bhutanese who gets 100% scholarship from Government of india to study in top colleges of india........DO we do it for some favour??what can we get from a land which has no resources....MAny nepalis get 100% scholarship........india took billion $ of loans form foreign banks and we gave free aids to poorer country like nepal and bhutan and bangladesh...........

what can we do if we are surrounded by unsuccessful countries from all sides....

pakistan :had many coups in last 60 years...i cant call them stable

Nepal:fighting among themselves like nuts ... ......nepalis are very corrupt.....and more u give ,they dont want to wrk despite they hab no resources..india makes roads ,schools for them and in return we get bashing from them...
Can any country of this size in the world take such bashing from a neighbour which totaly runs on aid and tourists from our country..its only india..........we respect even miniatures even we may be 20 times bigger than them

Bangladesh:a country who was plundered by pakistan till 1971 had nthing left after they got independence........what can u tell abot a coutry who has 30 military coups in last 30 years.............Those who cant maintain good relations with their own people will never be able to live wit peace with neighbours..india gave big amount of aid............but people are stingy in this world...THey will forget ur help in few moments.......They are also fighinting similar kind of islamic fundamentalism in their country..........Once TATA wanted to invest about 3-4 billion $ ,they refused...who came to their help after they were flooded...india gave 22 millon $ ..second most after saudi arabia...we are exporting rice at cheaper price........

in jan 2008 we are allowing 100% import from all LDC(bangladesh,nepal,bhutan) at 0% tariff plan..........

India has nver bullied any country...even all 3 wars fought bween india and pakistan were initiated by pakistan.......

Indian media is one of the most transparent media in the world....BUt its a sensible media which has learnt to back national interest just like other western media.....

	Quote:

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Last edited by rohit_bangalore on Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:26 am; edited 2 times in total

yeh aap sab ke paas itni information kahan se aati hai. . .

Aap logon ke knowledge bahut hi vast hai . . .

_________________

	Anne wrote:
	yeh aap sab ke paas itni information kahan se aati hai. . . Aap logon ke knowledge bahut hi vast hai . . .

iti info padrnay ka time kiss kay pass ho gaa Sad

_________________
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«´¨`·.Shakeel Ahmed ..·´¨`»
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(((**A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes**))

rohit_bangalore wrote:

well i do have my own mind......Indian media is very fair...it even dared to expose narendra modi issues....it is nt run by government...well Vajpayee jee is very respected in india...Although he belonged to BJP he is a political figure since independence.I dont hate pakistani people....And why should we hate u people.....But if u try to prove that pakistan never supported terrorism in india ,then u r mistaken...............Mr ugarwich u stay in a country which has been hiding all facts from u...first of all u guys were born with PTV which has a hour india criticizing approach....U can give me a name of indian channel that just for sake of it defames pakistan without any proofs........Indians are very modest and we dont hate our neighbours but some of us certainly were frustated with pakistan state policy...i know u have no say in it...

1)All ur ex political leaders lke bhutoo,nawaz sharif and even musharraf admitted to supporting insurgency in kashmir which later spread to other parts of india...

2)After 2001 pakistan had to take a u turn from its own state policy of harboring terrorists....In the war of terror,many afganis/taliwanis ran to pakistan and are still using it as a hiding place...So west later realized that it was pakistan state policy to support them...

3)MQM is a very famous party in pakistan.......it had backing of musharraf...please dont link ur local problems with india agency..RAW is just an intelligence agency to safeguard india ..we are not interested in breaking wrecked ship..........If i start thinking according 2 u,den i ll start labeling maoist/naxalists as pakistanis supported terrorism which are not...

4)Its not ur problem dude.......................Ur country didnt follow the principles of Zinnah.....The history text books of pakistans history starts from 712 AD... and den to slave dynasty and then moughals.........while we are taught the real history..we read indus valley civilization which describe mohanzodro,lothal and harappan.if the place is in pakistan it will be highlighted "Now in pakistan"................we then learnt about kushan,magadha,shaka,maurya,tripartite struggle.....There are many places which are in pakistan and we do give real credit to the places lke taxila...But we certainly dont describe gajni as indian..Same goes with muhabbad bin kasim...our history says: afgani tribals invade and plunder india and run away....Even ghauri is treated similarly but once he gives his throne to kutubuddin aibak...and they start ruling the india..Our history absorbes them...we always appreciate the moughals and its rulers ..They were the one the most respected kings in india.....WHile bahadur sah jaffar was last moughal king,we well remember the 1857 rebellion in which all nations(hindu/muslims) and rulers supported jaffar as their king for delhi...............India is a very big nation by culture and its ability to absorb +100 languages,cultures and civilizations..................if u have time pls read a text book of history written in india and then u ll understand the secular nature of our country....

Our constitution is secular and democratic.....Modi might have been a hindu CM who brutally allowed some hindu fanatics to spread riots...But india doesnt think from religion point of view...after all persons who were killed were indian...We have a law who takes care..Indian law system is very much praiseworthy....But law is law...can anyone persecute someone for a unproved guilt....only generals can do....SO we need a solid case against some person........some hindu fanatics are already getting tried...And no one can come to save them if they are found guilty... first of all They are not citizen...u can cal them a criminals and law is taking care of the situation..............i don want to finger out situation in pakistan...this will be a tit for tat scheme.....If a sia muslim kills a sunni muslim,law doesn treat them from the religion point of view..........Religion based politics started off in india in 1990's after the babri masjid thing and partially due to congress policy to appease muslims unnecessarily who were hppy otherwise..............its lke if i support muhajirs who are minority in pakistan,that might lead to escalation bween muhajir and punjabis/pashtuni/sindhi..............................

i do agree that all the blasts which happen in india are not fully pakistanis supported...There are some indigenous movements 2................

Unlike ISI indians RAW too wanted to started meddling in pakistans policy...Then at that times CHief of RAW asked permission from indian prime minister Bajpayee (PM of india heads all agency here contrary to pakistan which has generals as head ) to reciprocate the same in pakistan...AT that time our PM told that "india is known for its values in the world...we dont believe in tit for tat strategy...we dont want to let world point finger on us and say that these people are also the same...India has worked hard for last 60 years and earned a kind of respect from world community........................"

NO india wil ever agree to think of hurting its neighbours...we have already suffered a lot...

I ll tell u ,,,,,,,,,,,u go on any forum in the world.. and ask them "which is the most peaceful country in the world consdering its size,population and power"....MOst of u will say its india...................................

Ask a bhutanese who gets 100% scholarship from Government of india to study in top colleges of india........DO we do it for some favour??what can we get from a land which has no resources....MAny nepalis get 100% scholarship........india took billion $ of loans form foreign banks and we gave free aids to poorer country like nepal and bhutan and bangladesh...........

what can we do if we are surrounded by unsuccessful countries from all sides....

pakistan :had many coups in last 60 years...i cant call them stable

Nepal:fighting among themselves like nuts ... ......nepalis are very corrupt.....and more u give ,they dont want to wrk despite they hab no resources..india makes roads ,schools for them and in return we get bashing from them...
Can any country of this size in the world take such bashing from a neighbour which totaly runs on aid and tourists from our country..its only india..........we respect even miniatures even we may be 20 times bigger than them

Bangladesh:a country who was plundered by pakistan till 1971 had nthing left after they got independence........what can u tell abot a coutry who has 30 military coups in last 30 years.............Those who cant maintain good relations with their own people will never be able to live wit peace with neighbours..india gave big amount of aid............but people are stingy in this world...THey will forget ur help in few moments.......They are also fighinting similar kind of islamic fundamentalism in their country..........Once TATA wanted to invest about 3-4 billion $ ,they refused...who came to their help after they were flooded...india gave 22 millon $ ..second most after saudi arabia...we are exporting rice at cheaper price........

in jan 2008 we are allowing 100% import from all LDC(bangladesh,nepal,bhutan) at 0% tariff plan..........

India has nver bullied any country...even all 3 wars fought bween india and pakistan were initiated by pakistan.......

Indian media is one of the most transparent media in the world....BUt its a sensible media which has learnt to back national interest just like other western media.....

	Quote:

	Quote:

well, I am not very keen in writing such long texts and rather waste my keystrokes on you, it is very easy to nullify your statements but lets just agree to disagree. you simply disregarded whatever I wrote about kashmir's situation at present, you are completely diverting what my point was. My point was that we accept atleast I do that we support insurgency in Indian occupied kashmir and why the heck won't we because it is rightful mujahideen should fight indian army and fight hard, and as I said earlier we support them with all our hearts and souls. anyway all I was saying was that the core problem is kashmir until you guys leave kashmir and leave it to their people the problems between Pakistan and india will never resolve. yes that is true that we are not following jinnah's principles but anyways we hope that we'll take a U turn on that. Moreover about Pakistan's policy after 2001 I must say that the policy was ok in the beginning but it started deviating from its original essence, the first step of allying in war on terrorism was perhaps good because that was in national interests but musharraf shouldnt have given so much liberation to americans and should have kept some self respect for PAkistan and majority of Pakistanis think this way. But anyways try not to quote what musharraf did because he doesnt have the backing of most of the people in Pakistan, if he had the backing he wouldnt have dismissed chief justice and wouldnt have done so many blunders that he did. But anways let me repeat again that war in kashmir and palestine against indians and israelis is very right there is no question about it and majority of people in pakistan have all their sympathies for oppressed kashmiris and palestinians because indians and israelis have occupied those places without the will of the people. unwantedly I have written so many words but anyway try to concentrate on what I write although I didnt read your last post completely just got bits and bobs out of it

just came across one more point in your post, secularism, I can write a book on that , that why Pakistan doesnt want to be secular and I can question the secularism in India where hundreds of muslims get killed by hindu extremist majority... BJP won elections which has the most extremist sects.. you talk about moulana masood azhar we talk about lalloooo parsad who is actually in politics... lalloo parsad might be an angel for you guys but he is a terrorist to us just like moulana masood azhar is a terrorist for you,, try to buy spectacles which can give you both sides of the mirage,,, I have spoken to loads of indians on these issues already but couldnt get convinced by anyone of you the reason is you guys repeat a few things on and on,,, Ican tell you 10 things in your last 2 posts which were repeated by you on this forum and they have already been answered by others, I am sort of tired of these debates now because if you get the answers to your question then someone new gona turn up tommorow on this forum repeating the same stupid questions, anyways I was talking about A in my second to last post and you started showing million other dimensions.

and lets not talk about the transperancy of media because when I do, you gona get shuttt uup.

Its funny LOL........................laloo prasad yadav is a secular leader in india.......... i think u wanted to write Narendra modi/..........Laloo heads a party named "RJD"......Bihar constitutes about 20% of muslims in state..Laloo has managed to win election in bihar mainly bcoz of his muslim support...I think u can google laloo and muslims.......HE also implemented some reservation policy for muslims....But Laloo is a very corrupt person who wrecked bihar for last 15 years...Now its in better hand .....

Look india is not a small country who will give claim for kashmir

1)Kashmir is integral part of india...We can nver part away wit kashmir..its called heaven of india..........Kashmir vally was peacefu..There was no large scale military mobilization...But after 1988 pakistani openly started sending terrorists to kashmir which led to india sending laks of troops ...Most of indians used to visit kashmir before 1988 but wt u did indirectly destroyed tourism industry of kashmir.......Well once in kashmir there were 10000+terrorists...Now few 100 left...DO u think they can survive against indian might........India is a big country and no country of size of india can ever give away a big piece of land...

2)U dont want ur country to prosper...60 years,,, kashmir is still same...........Earlier UNO and other major powers supported pakistan and now noone supports pakistan...wts da use of wasting time and money on such issues which are unsolvable......

3)I think people care more about development than kashmir or any other issue in the world.......Or UGarwich do u like to stay like This in so called failed pakistan which was created for islamic extremism ...........Do u like to see 20 bomb blast in month in ur country.....Do u want all ur leaders to get murdered......Cant u all understand that pakisan is paying for sins it committed in last 10 years.....SO why to live in past.......Isnt priority of ur country is economy???Atleast india doenst think beyond economy..

4)Lastly even if we give kashmir to kashmiris..DOnt u understand creation of kashmir will further aggravate problems..........kashmir will become next afganistan...safe heaven for islamic terrorism.........CAn a small locked country lke kashmir survive on its own???then its a land locked country............It doesnt have any resources,money and infrastructure/...I guess u want kashmir coz kashmiris are pro pakistan and they will join pak after they get freedom...And if we giveup kashmir then next day there will be 100 rebellions in our country where each state will demand their own country.....we are not fools who will give away kashmir and create the biggest problem for us and world for next century....

5)There is no use harping on kashmir issue and its better we forget this issue and move forward with core issues which we face like poverty,overpopulation,terrorism...wt india and pak needs is to develop their manpower and turn their economy into knowledge economy......There is no room for policies which hinder peaceful relations which india and pak........wt we need is trade,cultural exchanges and peace............

I Hear from many pakistanis,that creating pak was the biggest mistake jinnah did..........ISnt india secular?????Even they know india is secular apart from some flaws............and if subcontinent wont have been divided,then subcontinent would have had 50 crore muslim to 80 crore hindus..............Now people in pakistan seems to be very unhappy with the very own country.............wt has pakistan given them??A bad respect in worlds eye.....People killing their own country men..Frequent riots and unstable economy ............i hope instead of asking india to free kashmir,u better create a public opinion among ur country men and influence ur country to join INDIA....we are peaceful nation and we always respect all sects and religions.....Even if u dont want to join india,we can be joint economically and commercially.....Tourism from india alone can yield pakistan billions of $...(and see now there is noone who wants to visit pakistan)...Last thing inspite of some loopholes in our system,indian muslims are more happy than pakistanis....And in next few years as we have started getting +30 billion$ of invetsment,we will continue to get better and the gap will start getting wider.

There was a confusion in the posts...And That first post which had ur name ,was written for online...

	rohit_bangalore wrote:
	There was a confusion in the posts...And That first post which had ur name ,was written for online...

Mr.Banglore
I already informed you many times that its not your fault.
Its your media who makes you indian fool against Pakistan with news & info that
are totally FAKE Exclamation

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

Yes, there is no dout that India is fully involved with lots of terrorist activites into Pakistan
with the support of MQM & Afghanistan Exclamation

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

I remember that durin Genral Zia-Ul-Haq (Late) was president of Pakistan India twice tried with help of
Israel to distroy Pakistan`n Nuclear Power Station. BUT BOTH INDIA & ISRAEL WERE FAILD into their that kind
of terrorist activites. Pakistan AIr Force were full allert that time. India also tried lots of time to repeat it again with
support of Russia (former USSR) but didn`t got any success in their those terrorist activites against Pakistan. How can you use
such positive words against your country`s sincerely with Pakistan Mad

How can you think that India is peace full country Mad

More than 700 000 Indian forces are in Kashmir and killed more than 100 000 innocent Kashmiri just because they want freedom from
India. Even if now you can go into Kashmir and ask them what Indians army did or doing then they just cannot control over them self and
abusing Indian army because of Indian army terrorisam in Indian occopide Kashmir. But I understand that right now we have a bit good relationship
that we never had in past. I appresate it but one thing is for sure that there must be some reasons for it that why India little bit coprate with Pakistan Rolling Eyes

Because if you watch 60 year history of India then you may find there that India never were sincere with Pakistan at all. Pr today as I said to you many times that yes its true that even relation between Pakistan and India are a bit better but, India is still fully involved with their terrorist activites into Pakistan
with the support of RAW, MQM & Afghanistan`s millitance. You don`t believe that and I don`t care for it. Because how an indian can accept their reality. Now listen I am not against indian people because all indians are not same as well Bal Thakre, Vajpaye, L.K Advani, Nirindar Modhi etc... But those politaions in India who are in power they never think positive for Pakistan. When world number one terrorist USA asked Pakistan in early 2000 to attck on Afghanistan then what happened to India Laughing

Your milatry genrals & other officers cry to USA that "Use our bases" Use our land" Use our army" to attck over Afghanistan Shocked

That was a matter between Pakistan and USA but wondring that why India were so serious over this matter Shocked

Even Musharraf said that into his one interview that time all that. Before you update our information try to look at your history too.

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.

rohit_bangalore wrote:

Its funny LOL........................laloo prasad yadav is a secular leader in india.......... i think u wanted to write Narendra modi/..........Laloo heads a party named "RJD"......Bihar constitutes about 20% of muslims in state..Laloo has managed to win election in bihar mainly bcoz of his muslim support...I think u can google laloo and muslims.......HE also implemented some reservation policy for muslims....But Laloo is a very corrupt person who wrecked bihar for last 15 years...Now its in better hand .....

Look india is not a small country who will give claim for kashmir

1)Kashmir is integral part of india...We can nver part away wit kashmir..its called heaven of india..........Kashmir vally was peacefu..There was no large scale military mobilization...But after 1988 pakistani openly started sending terrorists to kashmir which led to india sending laks of troops ...Most of indians used to visit kashmir before 1988 but wt u did indirectly destroyed tourism industry of kashmir.......Well once in kashmir there were 10000+terrorists...Now few 100 left...DO u think they can survive against indian might........India is a big country and no country of size of india can ever give away a big piece of land...

2)U dont want ur country to prosper...60 years,,, kashmir is still same...........Earlier UNO and other major powers supported pakistan and now noone supports pakistan...wts da use of wasting time and money on such issues which are unsolvable......

3)I think people care more about development than kashmir or any other issue in the world.......Or UGarwich do u like to stay like This in so called failed pakistan which was created for islamic extremism ...........Do u like to see 20 bomb blast in month in ur country.....Do u want all ur leaders to get murdered......Cant u all understand that pakisan is paying for sins it committed in last 10 years.....SO why to live in past.......Isnt priority of ur country is economy???Atleast india doenst think beyond economy..

4)Lastly even if we give kashmir to kashmiris..DOnt u understand creation of kashmir will further aggravate problems..........kashmir will become next afganistan...safe heaven for islamic terrorism.........CAn a small locked country lke kashmir survive on its own???then its a land locked country............It doesnt have any resources,money and infrastructure/...I guess u want kashmir coz kashmiris are pro pakistan and they will join pak after they get freedom...And if we giveup kashmir then next day there will be 100 rebellions in our country where each state will demand their own country.....we are not fools who will give away kashmir and create the biggest problem for us and world for next century....

5)There is no use harping on kashmir issue and its better we forget this issue and move forward with core issues which we face like poverty,overpopulation,terrorism...wt india and pak needs is to develop their manpower and turn their economy into knowledge economy......There is no room for policies which hinder peaceful relations which india and pak........wt we need is trade,cultural exchanges and peace............

I Hear from many pakistanis,that creating pak was the biggest mistake jinnah did..........ISnt india secular?????Even they know india is secular apart from some flaws............and if subcontinent wont have been divided,then subcontinent would have had 50 crore muslim to 80 crore hindus..............Now people in pakistan seems to be very unhappy with the very own country.............wt has pakistan given them??A bad respect in worlds eye.....People killing their own country men..Frequent riots and unstable economy ............i hope instead of asking india to free kashmir,u better create a public opinion among ur country men and influence ur country to join INDIA....we are peaceful nation and we always respect all sects and religions.....Even if u dont want to join india,we can be joint economically and commercially.....Tourism from india alone can yield pakistan billions of $...(and see now there is noone who wants to visit pakistan)...Last thing inspite of some loopholes in our system,indian muslims are more happy than pakistanis....And in next few years as we have started getting +30 billion$ of invetsment,we will continue to get better and the gap will start getting wider.

anyways yes I mixed up laloo with narenda modi the one who won elections in gujrat.
the biggest problem of India is that they think that kashmir is the INTEGRAL part of india where the heck this idea came from I have no clue but this is how hindus have kept along their old traditional ideas which are no more applicable in this modern world. A country is completed with people inside it when people dont want to live under some admin in some area of land then it does not remain the part of that country, it is merely on people to decide which part they belong to, it depends on religion, customs, relations and way of life which is far more closer to muslims and Pakistanis. Try not to give me those dry repeated indian answers make some logic out of it, and dont waste our time along with yours.

if you are telling us that india can't give away that piece of land then inshaALLAH one day we'll liberate if from india's clutches. look at how sinister is your people that they havent accepted UNO resolutions, and how apocalyptic westerners are that they dont want this issue to be resolved otherwise they wouldnt remain on top of this world. The pakistanis who say that the creation of Pakistan was a mistake they are not Pakistanis they are indian sponsored terrorists e.g MQM. Altaf hussain has passes such comments for quite a number of times. Everyone apart from their party memebers acknowledges that party being terrorist and haunting.
But the biggest misconception that you indians have is that poverty and terrorism that you think are core problems which are NOT will get resolved themselves as soon as india leaves kashmir because terrorism is only being perpetuated because of indian occupation there would be no insurgency against indian forces after they leave muslim areas because we wouldnt have any reason to do so. and of course india and pakistan spend alot of their budget on armies and you can help reduce poverty by reducing their budget on armies that they deploy on borders. especially india spends alot on their armies in kashmir and look what happens to your soldiers they do suicides and kill their mates because of prolonged frustration from their officials.

Quote:

I remember that durin Genral Zia-Ul-Haq (Late) was president of Pakistan India twice tried with help of
Israel to distroy Pakistan`n Nuclear Power Station. BUT BOTH INDIA & ISRAEL WERE FAILD into their that kind
of terrorist activites. Pakistan AIr Force were full allert that time. India also tried lots of time to repeat it again with
support of Russia (former USSR) but didn`t got any success in their those terrorist activites against Pakistan. How can you use
such positive words against your country`s sincerely with Pakistan Mad How can you think that India is peace full country Mad

Listen dude there is difference in wants and actions..Did we bomb any of ur place?U cant put a fake allegations on us as long as ur territory was trespassed by any of our planes...well now even world repents with pakistan having created islamic bomb which is major threat to civilized society...HAd USA bombed tahuka or prevented china from trasferring technology to pakistan,situations would have been different....India is a responsible country...Which country of our size,might and power gets bullied by smaller neighbours llike nepal,bangladesh .......Full wolrd knows that india is the only peaceful democracy in the world....its coz they have seen us from true eyes..But u cant help it....u saw what ur PTV showed u ,which was total crap to create hatred ....While we dont hate pakistani people for sake of it....I have never seen any program on DD or any private news channel which misguides public....Pakistani media had improved these days after 2001 ,but Mushrraf doesnt want to keep them free.....COme to india and see how media can say anyhting against anyone here..........We live in free and open society/////But we dont want to see our neighbours gloomy...and we will be happy if ur country progresses and democracy thrives in...I always told i my all posts that we want a stable and peacful pakistan...//

Quote:

More than 700 000 Indian forces are in Kashmir and killed more than 100 000 innocent Kashmiri just because they want freedom from
India. Even if now you can go into Kashmir and ask them what Indians army did or doing then they just cannot control over them self and
abusing Indian army because of Indian army terrorism in Indian occopide Kashmir. But I understand that right now we have a bit good relationship
that we never had in past.

Ur numbers are not right..india has only 9-10 lak soldiers.u want to say we have kept 90% of soldiers in kashmir.......There are only 80000 soldiers in kashmir...Indian soliders main aim is to kill terrorists and save innocent citizens..But if some kashmiris assisted terrorists ,we did sort them out...Helper of a terrorists/criminal is also a terrorist....We abide by indian penal code... we dont follow general rules(like in pakistan).....MOst of the people are killed dur to terrorists attacks ...What a shame on them....Please read some of news of kashmir and update urself with the situation.HIZB has almost given up and indian army will make kashmir 100% safe with in 2 years.......But i do agree that india army eliminated 10000 terrorists of afgani origin sent by ISI and pakistan army to kashmir to spread terrorism.......
And dont call them freedom fighters...Full world including pakistan labels them as terrorists....Ur so called freedom fighters have links with Taliwan...Azhar masood who was released from india for IC 814 hijacking had links with people(MOhammad atta)who carried out 9/11 bombing......
just answer my question ....was any problem in kashmir befor 1988...it was ur Zia who armed these terrorists to india......if u wouldnt have sent these "bhade ke tatoos afganis" to kashmir,then situation wont have been so bad....U laide down seed for such pathetic situations of kashmir.....initially pakistan started with khalistan movement and once the mission failed in 1984 after indira gandhi caught all terrorists in golden temple...UR general Zia started a new movement in kashmir......But don wry dude,there is no support for these terrorists in th world...Gone are those world once USA couldn understand the link between all these terrorists...........World is fed up of islamic terrorism....Instead of pointing finger on india,why dont u clean ur mess first.....Kashmir is far better than pakistan of now...where we hear 10 blalsts daily....why are pakistanis killing pakistanis....

Quote:

When world number one terrorist USA asked Pakistan in early 2000 to attck on Afghanistan then what happened to India Laughing Your milatry genrals & other officers cry to USA that "Use our bases" Use our land" Use our army" to attck over Afghanistan Shocked That was a matter between Pakistan and USA but wondring that why India were so serious over this matter Shocked Even Musharraf said that into his one interview that time all that. Before you update our information try to look at your history too.

i do agree that USA is not reliable,They are a bully nation.....But Taliwans attack on world trade centre was terrorism and full world was united against taliwan except pakistan which has knwlingly created taliwan for its self interest.....Before 2001 pakistan state policy was to promote terror against india...Every day we had bomb blast by these terrorists in other parts of india...[b]
taliwan was the epicenter of terrorists camps where innocent youth are brain washed by mullah to do jehad.....It looks funny....why wont india hav helped USA to destroy taliwan whose main aim was to sponsor terrorism in india (supported by ISI and pakistan)

	Quote:
	india is still fully involved with their terrorist activites into Pakistan with the support of RAW, MQM & Afghanistan`s millitance. You don`t believe that and I don`t care for it. Because how an indian can accept their reality.

Noone in india will be ready to die for its religion.why cant u understand that U turn policy against ur own taliwan has led to such situations....No hindu will be ready to die for religion..why we will try to disrupt u people while u r helping us by removing taliwan....WOrld knows who supports/supported terrorism...

Quote:

But I understand that right now we have a bit good relationship
that we never had in past. I appreciate it but one thing is for sure that there must be some reasons for it that why India little bit coprate with Pakistan Rolling Eyes
Because if you watch 60 year history of India then you may find there that India never were sincere with Pakistan at all. Pr today as I said to you many times that yes its true that even relation between Pakistan and India are a bit better but,

we are also humane and we have moral values...we wouldnt like ur country to go is mess and create further problem for india in future....And after 2001 pakistan started dismantling terrorism in india (mainly kashmir) to a great extent...so we are happy with the situation...Earlier pakistan main aim was to stab india either on the verge of USA or china...We do want to fight with our neighbours..And want to have peaceful relations for centuries...But MR online u seem to be very adamant on kashmir issue..Please update urself with Ur state policy which no longer terms terrorists of kashmir as martyrs////////// IF ur country wont have army and would have been peace with india....we as an indian can never ever thinking of harming any country.....U can take example from bangladesh,nepal ///India never says anything against them,,but u can hear opposite of them......we live in peace and we dont mind even listening to hardcomments from our friendly neighbours....We follow a common policy of peaceful and independent existence with all our neighbours....BUt we cant preach our neighbours to do same...AT present nepal and bangladesh are more at peace with india...But they have many problems at home which force their leaders to change their stand...But we indians respect an ant,insect and every creatures of world......

Last edited by rohit_bangalore on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Come on Mr.Banglore,
Try to face the reality.
When we show you the mirror then you say its FAKE Laughing

Regarding World Trade Center, that was an Israeli & Americans Master-Mind plan against how to
control Saddam Hussein and Ènter into Middle East quite easly. Now whenever USA is in trouble then
they show FRES video of Osama. Of course pr today USA support India as more as they can just because of
China & Nuclear threat of Pakistan. Once Taliban was HERO for USA when they faught against USSR in 1980s
but after they became terrorists Laughing

Lastly, YES I DO AGREE that world is cry with India that STOP terrorisam from Pakistan. It is because main
country behind is USA & Israel. WHO CANNOT FOLLOW USA ORDER WHO... Question

Of course they follow USA to
speak about that. But the truth is that Western are afraid by Islams popultaion that become very popular day by
day and since Pakistan is only Nuclear Islamic State that also make USA & Isreal much afraid. So India of course want violence in Pakistan not
peace. Why I`m saying that you can read it in my previous messages that I DO NOT WANT TO REPEAT AGAIN N AGAIN Exclamation

_________________
I do believe on Ghosts.