Iqbal or Angrez?

To start with, here is an issue:
There is a word known as Westrenism, after reading Iqbal's poetry one thinks that this is some thing more than just "Iqbaliyat" THIS IS EASTRENISM! The guidance of Iqbal clearly shows us that the westren culture is "empty" from the inside. thus, here is a topic to discuss: Shall we follow eastren traditions as Iqbal directs or become Iqbals ourselves, that is the question.

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Mein woh hoon jo kisi ne kaha:
HAM NAGHMA SARA KUCH GHAZLON KE HAM SOORAT GAR KUCH KHWAABON KE
BE JAZBA E SHOQ SUNAYEN KIYA KOI KHWAAB NA HO TO BATAYEN KIYA

mairey khayal men aaaj kal hamara bohat bura haal hay as a nation, agar ham eatern values ko follow hee kar laeein tou bohat baari baat hougi. Doosra yeahh kay koi Iqbal jaisa ban naheen sakta. Iqbal jaisay log naturaally paida hotay hain un jaisa bana naheen ja sakta. Allah karay kay hamaari qoum ko aur Iqbaal naseeb houn.

i am from england so sorry that i am writing in english, i think if we want pakistan to get anywhere then we need to look at our great past and learn from our elders and stop blindly following and copying the west.

that is absolutely right. That is probably the biggest problem we are facing as a muslim nation. The thing that bothers me is that our youth feels proud of copying western culture, they fancy all western stuff and show off, because we donot expect such behaviour from atleast educated people. This is sad that it is not the lower or lower middle class of our society who show off and westernise and stuff its only the upper and upper middle class who although sometimes have quite high level of education but yet they are uneducated in their gestures and behaviour, these people dont know the meaning of words like contention or modesty. People compete with each other going west.

but i think that alot of western people like our culture more, like for example the buddhist teachings are being practised alot here. i think that if our people were more proud about their culture i think that our culture has a lot to offer the world but we downgrade ourselves and put ourselves and culture second and copy others. i personally really love all of pakistan, i love our traditions and hopefully one day i intend to come to pakistan and travel to all the areas.

I think neither pure Easternism nor pure Westernism will work.
A good balance between them is very necessary.

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angrej angrej

HUMARI QOM KA AIK BAHUT AHAM MASLA HAE, JAB INSE KAHA JAYE KEH MUASHRA KON SA HO WOH ISLAM KE NAARE LAGAYEN GE, NIZAAM KE WAQT JAMHURIAT KE NAARE LAGAYEN GE, MAZHAB KE WAQT INSAANIYAT KE NAARE LAGAYEN GE, ZUBAAN KI DAFA ANGEREZI YAA URDU KE NARE LAGYEN GE, EKANOMY KE SAWAAL PAR CAPITALISM KE NARE LAGAYEN GE, AUR AGAR POOCHA JAYE KEH IN SAARI CHEEZON KE LIYE AIK TAARIQAH BATAYEN SAKOOT CHA JAYE GI. KYOON? KYOON KEH YEH KABHI BHI IN SAB AIK AIK CHEEZ KI HASIYAT SE NAHIN SOCHTE, ISI WAJHA SE IKHTILAFAAT AUR IMTIAZ PAIDA HOTA HAE. AB MERI BAAT SUNEIN:
ISLAM HUMARA MAZHAB HAE AUR IS MEIN NIZAAM AUR ECONOMY KA BHI TARREKA HAE, LEKIN ISLAM KA AIK MUASHRA BHI HAE, YEH MUASHRAH ARBON KE ZAMANE SE SHURU HUWA, JAB ARAB EMPIRE GIR GAYA TO AGE AUR EMPIRE KHARE HUWE, IN MEIN SE AIK MUGHULON KA DOR THA, HALANKEH WOH SHEHENSHAH TO BAR E SAGHER KE THE, UN KE DOR MEIN SAHI NATIONALIST FEELINGS, ISLAMIC VALUES AUR SAB SE ZIADA ISLAMI MUASHRAH APN SUNHERE DIN DEKHTA THA. ALBATA JAB ANGEREZ AYE TO WOH SAB KHATAM HO GAYA. WOH HAR SHAKHS JO KEHTA HAI KEH ISLAM MEIN FANOON E LATIFA (SARE ARTS JIN MEIN SHAIRY,MUSIQI,ADAB,TASWEER,WAGHERAH SHUMAAR HEIN) HARAAM HEIN WOH ba----s KARTA HAE JHOOT BOLTA HAE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALLAH KE SIFAQU NAMON MEIN SE HAE: ALMUSAVIR, QURAN AIK ADABI KITAAB HAE ROHANI HONE KE SAATH SAATH SAARI ARBI GRAMAR QURAN SE LI GAYI HAE, QIRAT,AZAN,QAWALI,NAAT,NASHEED,WAGHERA SAB MUSIQI KI CHOTI YA BARHI IQSAAM HEIN, ALLAH NE KAHA HAE KEH USSE KHOOBSOORTI PASSAND HAE, IS SE ZAHIR HAE KEH SET/INTERIOR DESIGN BHI HALAAL HAE, MAKE UP HALLAL HAE, ALLAH NE KAHA HAE KEH USNE APNI SAANS HUMARI RUHON MEIN BHARI AUR HUM NE US SE AADATEIN INHERIT KIN HEIN JESE KEH HUM APNE WAALIDEN SE KARTE HEIN, ALLAH TO KHUID AIK MUSAVIR,ADEEB, DESIGNER, AUR FANKAAR HAE. BALKEH USI NE TO YEH BANYE THE!
LEKIN HAM AIK DOOSRE KI TAANGE KENCHNE KE ILAWA AUR KUCH NAHIN KARTE, MUJHE PATA HAE KEH DAS LOG KEHENGE KEH YEH GHALAT HAE, KOI KAAM KI BAAT PAR GHOR NHIN KARE GA! PAKISTAN KA CULTURE YANI MUASHRA MUGHAL MUASHRE KI HI SOORAT HAE JO KEH HAM NE BARBAAD KARDI HAE. HUM YEH TO KEH DETE HEIN KEH QAWALI HARAAM AHE MAGAR SHAID AAP JANTE NAHIN KEH JAB SUFI YAHAN PREACHING KE LIYE AATE THE TO LOG QAWALI SE HI CONVERT HOTE, RYTHEM KI AHAMIYAT DEKHEN KEH AIK SHAIR THE IRAQI WOH QURAAN KI TALAWAT KAR RAHE THE TO KUCH YAHOODI GUZAR RAHE THE, UNHON NE UN KI AAWAAZ KI KHHOBSORATI DEKH KAR ISLAM QABOOL KARLIYE.
SAB SE AHAM BAAT KEH ALLAH NE ABNE PEGHAMBARON KO MUJZE DIYE AUR UN MEIN SE AIK (SHAID HAZARAT HAROON AS) KO UNHONE ACHA GAANE KI QOOAT DI THI, TO KIYA WOH BHI GHALAT THE?
IS LIYE SAHI MUASHRAH YEH HAE KEH PEHLE HAM MUGHAL DOR KO REFORM KAAREN AUR US MEIN JO DO CHAAR BATEN GHER ISLAMI THIN (JESE MUJRE) UN KO HATA DEIN AUR US MUASHRE PAR AMAL KAREIN.
CONSTITUTION, YANI AYEN PAR SHARIAT LKAGO KAREIN AUR TAMAAM MAGHRIBI AUR GHER MASHRIQI YA ISLAMI CHEEZON KO KHATAM KAREN ABOLISH KAREN. KHUDA KE LIYE AB BEHAS MAT KARNA AGAR AAP KO BURA LAGA HO TO MAAFII CHAHTA HOON.

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Mein woh hoon jo kisi ne kaha:
HAM NAGHMA SARA KUCH GHAZLON KE HAM SOORAT GAR KUCH KHWAABON KE
BE JAZBA E SHOQ SUNAYEN KIYA KOI KHWAAB NA HO TO BATAYEN KIYA

Quote:

Humari qom ka aik bahut aham masla hae, jab inse kaha jaye keh muashra kon sa ho woh islam ke naare lagayen ge, nizaam ke waqt jamhuriat ke naare lagayen ge, mazhab ke waqt insaaniyat ke naare lagayen ge, zubaan ki dafa angerezi yaa urdu ke nare lagyen ge, ekanomy ke sawaal par capitalism ke nare lagayen ge, aur agar poocha jaye keh in saari cheezon ke liye aik taariqah batayen sakoot cha jaye gi. Kyoon? Kyoon keh yeh kabhi bhi in sab aik aik cheez ki hasiyat se nahin sochte, isi wajha se ikhtilafaat aur imtiaz paida hota hae. Ab meri baat sunein:
islam humara mazhab hae aur is mein nizaam aur economy ka bhi tarreka hae, lekin islam ka aik muashra bhi hae, yeh muashrah arbon ke zamane se shuru huwa, jab arab empire gir gaya to age aur empire khare huwe, in mein se aik mughulon ka dor tha, halankeh woh shehenshah to bar e sagher ke the, un ke dor mein sahi nationalist feelings, islamic values aur sab se ziada islami muashrah apn sunhere din dekhta tha. Albata jab angerez aye to woh sab khatam ho gaya. Woh har shakhs jo kehta hai keh islam mein fanoon e latifa (sare arts jin mein shairy,musiqi,adab,tasweer,wagherah shumaar hein) haraam hein woh ba----s karta hae jhoot bolta hae!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shahzaib, as I spoke to you about these so called “funoon e lateefa” already in some other topics, I don’t know why you are unable to understand the point of funn.
I am sure that there is a crack in your historical knowledge about mughals, or your way of doing heuristics is nto as appropriate as I know.
First of all try to understand that whatever mughals did was right. This is one of the biggest wrongs you are in. you are coming up with a logic that because mughals forefathers were arabs, and because Islam came from arabs that’s why mughals were right and then this is why whatever they did is right such as funoon e lateefa (art, music, pictures etc).
First of all Mughals did not come from Arabs, mughals came from Persia, its only Muhammad Bin Qasim who was arab and a few rulers after him but then turks came and then afghanis such as Ghaznavi and then Persians such as qutbut deen aibak and then mughal era started.
On the record this is in history that King Akbar’s rule was considered to be the best because in his times he had the largest area of subcontinent under his rule, I agree. But you should read some books of what was his rationale about religions, he tried to merge Hinduism, Islam and Christianity, which is why people in our culture still think that some hindu values and customs are the part of Islam.

Secondly do you have the knowledge that mughal kings used to drink and watch women dancing?, why you or muslims do that? Is that in Islam as well, just because mughals did it and because they were considered to be the rulers of the best era of Islam in subcontinent? So does that make sharab and dancing women halaal?
It is not a good idea to boast about mughals because they themselves were in darkness, they were drinking and watching women dancing while british were inventing guns and cars, this is one of the reasons why we are atleast a century behind westerners.
Our problem is that we are following westerners in the aspects of life that are not positive such as music, drinking, social system, languages etc. but we are not trying to follow them in their research methods, no inventions, no honesty to our own country as they are very honest to their job and country.

Main jhoot bol raha hoon kia?

Quote:

Allah ke sifaqu namon mein se hae: almusavir, quran aik adabi kitaab hae rohani hone ke saath saath saari arbi gramar quran se li gayi hae,
qirat,azan,qawali,naat,nasheed,waghera sab musiqi ki choti ya barhi iqsaam hein, allah ne kaha hae keh usse khoobsoorti passand hae, is se zahir hae keh set/interior design bhi halaal hae, make up hallal hae, allah ne kaha hae keh usne apni saans humari ruhon mein bhari aur hum ne us se aadatein inherit kin hein jese keh hum apne waaliden se karte hein, allah to khuid aik musavir,adeeb, designer, aur fankaar hae. Balkeh usi ne to yeh banye the!

Beshak ALLAH is the greatest musavir. But you are mixing qawali with qirat and azan, it is in my eyes a big crime as there:

1) there is no shirk in Azan and Qirat they are the words of Quran
2) There is no blo*dy music in Azan and Qirat as they use in Qawalis
3) Qawali is amongst the biggest offences to Islam as it involves shirk, and you should know what Islam says about shirk.

No one stops for make up, make up is halaal and personal grooming is halaal as well in fact it is necessary but under some conditions.

This is a stupid thing to say that “allah ne kaha hae keh usne apni saans humari ruhon mein bhari aur hum ne us se aadatein inherit kin hein jese keh hum apne waaliden se karte hein, allah to khuid aik musavir,adeeb, designer, aur fankaar hae. Balkeh usi ne to yeh banye the! ” (you are misinterpreting some aya’h)

What a nice way to prove to be a fankaar and designer, listen if you want to play music be an artist or a musavir, go on do it no one will stop you because it’s a personal thing but you should accept that whatever you are doing is wrong if it is not for a good cause. But don’t publicise your wrong thinking in people you are injecting this poison into the innocent people who are developing their thinking yet, you should be very careful about it.

Quote:

Lekin ham aik doosre ki taange kenchne ke ilawa aur kuch nahin karte, mujhe pata hae keh das log kehenge keh yeh ghalat hae, koi kaam ki baat par ghor nhin kare ga! Pakistan ka culture yani muashra mughal muashre ki hi soorat hae jo keh ham ne barbaad kardi hae. Hum yeh to keh dete hein keh qawali haraam ahe magar shaid aap jante nahin keh jab sufi yahan preaching ke liye aate the to log qawali se hi convert hote, rythem ki ahamiyat dekhen keh aik shair the iraqi woh quraan ki talawat kar rahe the to kuch yahoodi guzar rahe the, unhon ne un ki aawaaz ki khhobsorati dekh kar islam qabool karliye.

Phir ghalat baat bhai Quran ki tilawat karna bohat achi baat hay laikin kal ko agar log Quran ki tilawat guitar, piano aur tablay kay sath shuru kar dain tou kia who sahi hoga? I am not going to talk to you about sufiya ikram with musical instruments as I have already passed out a lot of material about this topic to you in other topics probably you should read them again.
You are mixing rhythm with musical instruments, wake up. Now I myself listen to music but I do admit that it is wrong and at some point I have to quit it. This is atleast everyone should do we should admit that we are doing something wrong so we need to quit it, but what most of us do is they try to prove some wrong thing right, just because they do it.

	Quote:
	Sab se aham baat keh allah ne abne peghambaron ko mujze diye aur un mein se aik (shaid hazarat haroon as) ko unhone acha gaane ki qooat di thi, to kiya woh bhi ghalat the?

Your knowledge is raw. He was Hazrat Daood (AS) who had a nice voice but he didn’t sing MIND IT he used to do tilawat of the holy book ZABOOR, there was no singing at all and no musical instruments involved.

	Quote:
	“Constitution, yani ayen par shariat lkago karein aur tamaam maghribi aur gher mashriqi ya islami cheezon ko khatam karen abolish karen. Khuda ke liye ab behas mat karna agar aap ko bura laga ho to maafii chahta hoon.”

This was probably the only useful thing you said.

it would b very nice if v try to understand message of Iqbal and focus on the topic of thread