ARMY IN DOLLDRUMS?

MANY NEW FACES ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ARMY?
ARE YOU AGAINST THE ARMY OR THE ARMY CHIEF?

_________________
THAT IS ENOUHGH.

I are neither agaist Army nor Army Chief. Pakistan Army is the best.

Because of only few Army Officers you CANNOT blame the whole Pak Army.
Panchon ungliaan eik jayssi nahi hotti. Bat sari apni zehnaiat ki hai,.

_________________
Sorry for my poor english!

Agreed with encounter.

As Pakistani we should say that Pakistan Army is the best.

Best Army becuase they Lost big part of pakistan in war
Best Army becuase pakistan have more Martial Law then civilian govt.
Best Army becuase they can stay in power as long as they want.
Best Army becuase they can take over anytime they want.

	php_web wrote:
	As Pakistani we should say that Pakistan Army is the best. Best Army becuase they Lost big part of pakistan in war Best Army becuase pakistan have more Martial Law then civilian govt. Best Army becuase they can stay in power as long as they want. Best Army becuase they can take over anytime they want.

you seem to be a non-pakistani[/b]

I think you don't want to accept those facts about Our Army.

Im a pakistani bron in hyderabad Sindh.

	EnCounter wrote:
	Because of only few Army Officers you CANNOT blame the whole Pak Army. Panchon ungliaan eik jayssi nahi hotti. Bat sari apni zehnaiat ki hai,.

Agreed !

_________________

	php_web wrote:
	I think you don't want to accept those facts about Our Army. Im a pakistani bron in hyderabad Sindh.

then you must be a mohajir

Foreigner wrote:

	php_web wrote:
	I think you don't want to accept those facts about Our Army. Im a pakistani bron in hyderabad Sindh.

then you must be a mohajir

koi muhajir ho ya kuch aur Army to sab ki hai na !!

_________________

Foreigner wrote:

	php_web wrote:
	I think you don't want to accept those facts about Our Army. Im a pakistani bron in hyderabad Sindh.

then you must be a mohajir

Mr Foreigner can you define Mohajir?

Mohajir were the indian muslims who migrated to pakistan in 1947 from india.Gen musharraf is one of them.He was born in old delhi.For the current situation in pakistan army is far better than democratic govt.Democracy is very soft like in india where a govt who even after passing Nuclear bill cant afford to enforce it.Pakistan is going through the worst phase of fundamentalism.Probably General has realised it as most of them taliwan supported fundamentalist created by ISI and Pakistan army are now creating problem.Some of pakistan army officers may be corrupt.But they can help the society and economy 100% time better than democratic govt. Most of the democratic leaders are iliterate.They cant run the country.They will be involved in filling their own pockets.Even india is going through such situation.50% of parliament members are not even graduates.Well polictics is for those goondas who should have some crime record.Otherwise its 2 difficult2 win.We have leaders like laloo prasad yadav who is a clawn and a big fool.Atleast army officers are qualified.For the given situation in pakistan, Army is doing better work.wt did Benajir bhutto do?she was one of the corrupt PM.Democracy is good for western country.lucklily india has few politicians like Manamohan and chidambaram who are really sensible.so we are somehow managing our country at the cost of some hindrance which are caused by these politicians in development process.China is perfect.They were communist and now once they have progressed so much they are restoring democracy and human rights.

rohit_bangalore wrote:

Mohajir were the indian muslims who migrated to pakistan in 1947 from india.Gen musharraf is one of them.He was born in old delhi.For the current situation in pakistan army is far better than democratic govt.Democracy is very soft like in india where a govt who even after passing Nuclear bill cant afford to enforce it.Pakistan is going through the worst phase of fundamentalism.Probably General has realised it as most of them taliwan supported fundamentalist created by ISI and Pakistan army are now creating problem.Some of pakistan army officers may be corrupt.But they can help the society and economy 100% time better than democratic govt. Most of the democratic leaders are iliterate.They cant run the country.They will be involved in filling their own pockets.Even india is going through such situation.50% of parliament members are not even graduates.Well polictics is for those goondas who should have some crime record.Otherwise its 2 difficult2 win.We have leaders like laloo prasad yadav who is a clawn and a big fool.Atleast army officers are qualified.For the given situation in pakistan, Army is doing better work.wt did Benajir bhutto do?she was one of the corrupt PM.Democracy is good for western country.lucklily india has few politicians like Manamohan and chidambaram who are really sensible.so we are somehow managing our country at the cost of some hindrance which are caused by these politicians in development process.China is perfect.They were communist and now once they have progressed so much they are restoring democracy and human rights.

Your defination of Muhajir is wrong. If you are saying those who migrated from India to Pakistan are Muhajir then all those who migrated from Pakistan to India are also Muhajir.

Well said Ali

if A-> B

it doesnt mean B->A
law:Discrete mathematics
A->B =>~A U B
B->A=>~B U A

Description: Consider two clauses:
A: i go to school
B: i study

statement 1:
A->B : if i go to school then i study
statement 2:
B->A : if i study then i go to school

i think statement 1 and statement 2 are completely different..

By the way those hindus/muslims who migrated to india from paksitan are not treated the way you treat Mohajirs.Sindhis and Punjabis majority of them had come to india from pakistan.In india sindhi is the richest comunity.They are big shots in business.

Dont call them Muhajirs, they are our brothers, great Pakistanis. Its not like India we call them Muhajir. All the one who migrated to Pakistan are well established. They never have been treated bitter like in india.

rohit_bangalore wrote:

if A-> B

it doesnt mean B->A
law:Discrete mathematics
A->B =>~A U B
B->A=>~B U A

Description: Consider two clauses:
A: i go to school
B: i study

statement 1:
A->B : if i go to school then i study
statement 2:
B->A : if i study then i go to school

i think statement 1 and statement 2 are completely different..

By the way those hindus/muslims who migrated to india from paksitan are not treated the way you treat Mohajirs.Sindhis and Punjabis majority of them had come to india from pakistan.In india sindhi is the richest comunity.They are big shots in business.

	rohit_bangalore wrote:
	By the way those hindus/muslims who migrated to india from paksitan are not treated the way you treat Mohajirs.Sindhis and Punjabis majority of them had come to india from pakistan.In india sindhi is the richest comunity.They are big shots in business.

What treatment....in india you have 4 classess of Hindus and you are telling us that India has treated well to those how migrated to india and due to good treatment they are the richest community now..... You are just Funny LOL

I think its pakistan who differentiates between indian and pakistan muslim..BTW it was not me ,but someone from your country who mentioned about Muhajir.Well india do have some caste level inequality.But we are still not a developed state.india is a big country and we have 100 +language ,5 religion and 100+festivals.Culture had some flaws like Caste system.But we are removing such differences.We cant convert a society in 50 years .But things are much better now.And as society develops, these differences will narrow down....i think its better to be funny than being morose like PHP_WEB(Mr hypertext processor).we indians are not sad coz our past was very dismal.we believe in our future and we are making our own future...

really hot discussion goin on....
well so muhajir is same as refugee...ya?(even ths s wrong word as refugees r those who leave their own country n take shelter in sum1 else's country)

Foreigner wrote:

	php_web wrote:
	I think you don't want to accept those facts about Our Army. Im a pakistani bron in hyderabad Sindh.

then you must be a mohajir

??/?

...bt nobody in india talks like ths ..as ths person is talkin abt ppl who cam to india frm pak..
ths js shows wa kind of status those ppl r given in pak

i m nt sayin dat india is totally secular.. n ther r no fundamentalists..(cz if i say so... no one will take a sec. to remind me abt... babari masjid, gujarat riots n sm even abt 1984...)

bt in general i cn say ..... situation is nt that bad in india.. that if sum1 (frm watever religion) says smthin against its govt....he is nt tagged as.. non muslim..or non hindu... or ...wat ws that...ya ... MUHAJIR...

TIME Asia Magazine wrote:

On July 17, 2006 TIME Asia Magazine reported, "After the train attacks, police rounded up hundreds of the city's young Muslim men for questioning, though most were soon released. That did nothing to soothe some Muslims. 'We are always the first to be blamed,' fumes Majid Khan, a student from a Muslim slum in Bandra, not far from the site of one of the attacks. 'We are tired of this police harassment'...

India is home to the world's second-largest Muslim population. But in a nation of more than a billion, they are still a disadvantaged minority, and often the target of discrimination.

Government surveys show that Muslims live shorter, poorer and unhealthier lives than Hindus and are often excluded from the better jobs. In urban areas, 40% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, versus 22% of Hindus, and 30% of Muslims are illiterate, versus 19% of Hindus. Muslims make up 13% of the population, yet only 3% of government employees are Muslim. Of course, there are plenty of economic success stories among Muslims. Azim Premji, founder of the outsourcing giant Wipro Technologies, is India's richest resident. But many Muslims are alienated by the consumerism of the new India and feel excluded from the boom. According to the government's surveys, only 27% of Muslims have a salaried job compared to 43% of Hindus.

	arsh brar wrote:
	...bt nobody in india talks like ths ..as ths person is talkin abt ppl who cam to india frm pak.. ths js shows wa kind of status those ppl r given in pak bt in general i cn say ..... situation is nt that bad in india.. that if sum1 (frm watever religion) says smthin against its govt....he is nt tagged as.. non muslim..or non hindu... or ...wat ws that...ya ... MUHAJIR...

You must be insane trying to generalise the status of millions of Pakistani based on one person view. As far as "Tagging" goes how you can say there is none where you have Caste System.

i agree that india s nt totaly secular.. n muslims nt only in india bt all over the world r targetted.. n looked at with suspicion ...

may b u r rite.. we cant form an opinion jst cz one person said smthing wrong..

bt here i ws talikn abt the so called Muhajirs .. n i know ther s no such discriminatn in india..

so u mean muslims earn lesser...or r lesser educated.. in india.. cz govt denies education to muslims.. ??
n wats wrong with caste system.. ??

i agree with "arsh brar".Muslims are targeted all over the world coz of some muslims who support terrorism.i think your govt should think about it.If they wont have supported Taliwan and created them.Other muslims wont have to pay the price.Why hindus living in UK,USA and canada is ever questioned.Hinduism is a soft religion.Hindus worship every miniature things.They dont even kill ants.I have never heard a case of hindu terrorist in any other country.I know about babri masjid and Gugrat massacre.There is some exception.Even i saw video of gujrat and even i feel that people like Narendra modi should be hanged.But there is no strong evidence against him.so we cant do much against that bas.....Regarding muslim in india :Majority of muslims in 1950s were skilled workers in industires,handicraft,leather,diamond polishing .They were not challenged by anyone in this field.so now we see in india most of muslims in business,electronics repairing,bike/cycle as skilled workers.They started doing most of the servicing jobs in electrical/electrnics equipment,house building,leather,garment,carpet and textiles.They felt confident working in their skills.They didnt get challenges from others coz they were the one who knew how to do all these servicing.Most of hindus were farmers in 50's .AS populcation started rising.They felt that they cant surive in village on small part of land, and they started moving to city and towns.They took up education as They didnt have skills like muslim.Govt never has any policy against any religion in india.Infact i tell that muslims enjoy more freedom in india.I think we shouldnt be surprised if we see a reservation policy for muslims in few years.its democracy dude.Well it was muslims who preferred to work than take education.But some of them preferred to take up education as top prioroty so they are leading in all fields.i have no doubt in skills of muslims in india.We can see the film industry.They represent 50% in their population of 15% in india.Now in cities and town we see the gap is declining as muslims are taking up education.
Mullas of your country fabricated islam and bcoz of such people all the muslims over the world are seen as suspects.

Well you know the transparency of indian media.Its pillar of our democracy.But sometimes its astonishing to hear such comments from pakistan religious minister.

Britain's decision to award Salman Rushdie a knighthood set off a storm of protest in the Islamic world today, with a Pakistani government minister giving warning that it could provide justification for suicide bomb attacks.

Rushdie was awarded the title in the Queen's Birthday Honours on Saturday. He has lived under police protection since the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran pronounced a fatwa (a religious ruling) calling for his death over alleged blasphemies against Islam in his 1988 novel The Satanic Verses.

Today, Pakistan's religious affairs minister suggested that the knighthood was so grave an offence that any Muslim anywhere in the world would be justified in taking violent action.

"If somebody has to attack by strapping bombs to his body to protect the honour of the Prophet then it is justified," Mr ul-Haq told the National Assembly.
Expert View
Image of Michael Binyon. Leader writer.
Opening quote For nine years Salman Rushdie lived as a virtual prisoner, changing addresses constantly, and protected around the clock by British security at an estimated cost of £10 million Closing quote
Michael Binyon

The minister, the son of Zia ul-Haq, the military dictator who died in a plane crash in 1988, later retracted his statement in parliament, then told the AFP news agency that he meant to say that knighting Rushdie would foster extremism.

"If someone blows himself up he will consider himself justified. How can we fight terrorism when those who commit blasphemy are rewarded by the West?" he said.

He said Pakistan should sever diplomatic ties with Britain if it did not withdraw the award, adding:"We demand an apology by the British government. Their action has hurt the sentiments of 1.5 billion Muslims...

"If Muslims do not unite, the situation will get worse and Salman Rushdie may get a seat in the British parliament."

Iran has also condemned Rushdie's knighthood, with hardliners issuing calls for his murder today. Mehdi Kuchakzadeh, a Tehran MP, declared: “It would be a hollow dream for the Queen of England to think that with such an action she could revive one of her mercenaries to oppose Islam... Rushdie died the moment the late Imam (Ayatollah Khomeini) issued the fatwa.”

Backed by the Government, the Pakistan parliament today voted unanimously in favour of a resolution calling on Britain to withdraw the proferred knighthood because it is an insult to "the sentiments of Muslims across the world" and created religious hatred.

Sher Afgan Khan Niazi, the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs who proposed the resolution, called Rushdie a blasphemer. "Every religion should be respected," he told the National Assembly, "I demand the British government immediately withdraw the title as it is creating religious hatred."

Tasnim Aslam, the Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, said that Islamabad would protest to London. "We deplore the decision of the British government to knight him. This we feel is insensitive and we would convey our sentiments to the British government."

In india people has power to express.its called power of expression.Well you might have read about Da vincy code.it was written by a christian and was against vatican.But in democracy society no one can even think about Fatwa because there is right to expression.Even there are many books against hinduism which describes a lot.But there is no hindu organisation declaring fatwa.In hinduism you might have heard about Rama who went to srilanka to rescue his wife sita .They made a bridge which is called as "Rama setu pool".There is no proof about this bridge and it seemed to be mythological but hidus think that it exists.Recently there is a 560 million dollars project, a 48-kilometre channel linking india and srilanka.
The Project will dredge a channel in a narrow strip of sea between India and Sri Lanka, reducing distances and cutting costs for freight traffic.There was only one party VHP opposing it,but noone listens to them.So ok read this :
[b]The affidavit filed by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) on behalf of the Centre stated that there was no evidence to prove "the existence of the characters or the occurrence of events" in the Ramayana.The Sethusamudram Project will dredge a channel in a narrow strip of sea between India and Sri Lanka, reducing distances and cutting costs for freight traffic.

According to the Central Government, research has shown that the Ram Setu was a series of sand shoals created by sedimentation.

Dredging for the project began in 2005 and the channel -- 12 metres deep, 300 metres wide and almost 90 km long -- will provide a crucial link between the Palk Bay and the Gulf of Mannar.

[/b]

This is called secular country.A government agency like ASI can say there exists no RAMA setu pool.80% of india is hindu and there was no protest by 80% public against their religion'most important history of RAMA as it challenges the existence of RAMA.Apart from VHP(vishwa hindu parishad) nobody is bothered about it.
Can anyone in pakistan dare to say/publish something like this ?
why you are all bothered about Rashdie getting Knighthood after all he is an indian?.He is not from paksitan.i think he is not even indian now.He is british.

ya.. n one more thing.. though i hate to compare..

bt indian muslims r way better educated than islamic republic of pakistan wher 97perc r muslims(n i ve figures to prove ths.. )
moreover In a number of states, Muslim literacy
exceeded Hindu literacy, including in Chhattisgarh by
18.6%, Tamil Nadu (10.9%), Karnataka (4.5%), Gujarat
(5.2%), Andhra Pradesh (8.6%), Madhya Pradesh (7.5%),
Maharashtra (1.9%) and Orissa (8%).

bt that does nt mean pakistan s more busy in other activities than providing basic amenities to its ppl... or indian muslim r better educated because of indian govt. policies
its more cz of other factors like..accessibility of educational opportunities, economic
means and social support systems, traditions.

religion , i think shud nt b dragged into all ths..
bt we do...to prove one another wrong..
even if muslims in india r lesser educated than hindus.(no body bothers to compare sikhs n hindus.. even wen sikhs r also a minorty)so wat point u want to make.. that muslims r nt allowed to enter in schools n colleges??school heads ask abt religion b4 giving admission.. n if person is muslim he or she is sent back??
isnt it funny??

On Salman Rushdie:
Freedom of expression do have limitation you may know this "Your freedom ends where my nose begins". Muslim around the world denouncing British decision including Malaysia, Kuwait, Egypt, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Indonesia and even in India:

There were protests in different parts of India over the knighthood, including one in Kanpur lead by the AJ Fareedi Association. Denouncing Britaina and chanting slogans against Rushdie. The Islamic Centre of India began a petition campaign with the end result to be handing over a banner to the British High Commissioner in New Delhi covered with thousands of signatures. The centre's general secretary, Maulana Khalid Rasheed Farangimahli, announced in his Friday sermon that by honouring Rushdie the UK "has acted against the whole Muslim community around the world." He demanded the Indian government alert Britain of their outrage. The leaders of the Sunni Board of India also condemned the move in a Friday meeting, likewise they demanded the Indian government express their anger to the British.[49]

The Ulema Council of India said "the decision to honor Indian-born Rushdie reflects the anti-Islamic attitude of the British government."[50] Its spokesmen, Maulana Abul Hasan, stated "Salman Rushdie is a detested figure among Muslims. The British government has hurt Muslim feelings by honoring a person who is facing a fatwa for blasphemous writings."[5] On Sunday June 24, 2007 the Ulema Council joined with the Islamic Center of India, and the All India Sunni Board in sending a joint statement to the British High Commission in New Delhi condemning the knighthood.

your govt should think about it. If they wont have supported Taliwan and created them
Wrong. Taliban were supported by both USA and Pakistan to kick out Russia.

On Terrorism:
Right! yes we will never heard Hindu/Christian/Jewish/etc terrorist it don't mean there is no such thing...such as

National Democratic Front of Bodoland
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Nagaland Rebels
Army of God
Gush Emunim Underground
Kahane Chai
Khalistan Commando Force
Irish Republican Army
Shiv Sena
ETA
there are more non-muslim designated terrorist organizations...

But they never TAGGED as Christian/Jewish/Hinud/Sikh/etc Terrosist.

TIME Asia Magazine wrote: Government surveys show that Muslims live shorter, poorer and unhealthier lives than Hindus and are often excluded from the better jobs. In urban areas, 40% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, versus 22% of Hindus, and 30% of Muslims are illiterate, versus 19% of Hindus. Muslims make up 13% of the population, yet only 3% of government employees are Muslim. Of course, there are plenty of economic success stories among Muslims. Azim Premji, founder of the outsourcing giant Wipro Technologies, is India's richest resident. But many Muslims are alienated by the consumerism of the new India and feel excluded from the boom. According to the government's surveys, only 27% of Muslims have a salaried job compared to 43% of Hindus.

That is Indian Government survey NOT my opinion.... Those stats are only a reflection of same thing is wrong same where...

arsh brar do you know what caste system is otherwise you shouldn't be asking quesion like "What's wrong with caste system" where rohit_bangalore already accpted Caste system as flaw in indian culture. I guess you growup outside india.